What if growing a successful company meant saying no to Amazon, no to fear-based marketing, and yes to helping small businesses thrive?
In this episode of The Personal Side of Business, Jet sits down with Kate Assaraf, founder and CEO of Dip, to discuss how she built one of the fastest-growing sustainable hair care brands by challenging nearly every traditional business rule. From knocking on doors at independent retailers across the country to refusing to undercut local stores online, Kate shares why purpose and profitability don't have to compete.
They also dive into product development, customer trust, overcoming major business setbacks, and why empathy can be one of the strongest competitive advantages a company has.
Whether you're an entrepreneur, retailer, or someone passionate about building a business that makes a real impact, this conversation is full of practical insights and inspiration.
If you would like to purchase Dip haircare products, please check out the link below.
To support the Surfrider Foundation and learn what they are doing to protect the planet, www.surfrider.org
To check out more episodes and learn about The Personal Side of Business, www.personalsideofbusiness.com
For a free insurance quote for your business, check out Ergo Next Insurance at Get an Ergo Next Insurance Quote
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01:03 --> 01:07 to learn more and get your free quote today. Hi, and welcome to The
01:07 --> 01:11 Personal Side of Business, where every business has a story. I'm your host, Jet Bundy-Wall,
01:11 --> 01:14 and today my guest is proving that you don't have to choose between profit and
01:14 --> 01:18 purpose. She's the founder and CEO of DIP, a haircare brand
01:18 --> 01:23 that's redefining what conscious buying can look like while helping independent woman-owned retailers
01:23 --> 01:26 thrive across the country. Welcome to the podcast, Kate Asareff.
01:26 --> 01:30 Hey, thanks for having me. Uh, Jet is the coolest name I've ever heard.
01:30 --> 01:33 Thank you. Thank you. So, tell us, how did we get here? Oh man.
01:34 --> 01:37 Well, for just for DIP, in general, I, it was built out of frustration.
01:37 --> 01:41 I was frustrated with the product boom of 2019
01:41 --> 01:45 into 2020 of sustainable brands that seemed to really,
01:45 --> 01:49 really capitalize on fear marketing and getting people to buy something
01:49 --> 01:52 for the betterment of the earth, this promise of a better earth.
01:52 --> 01:56 But a lot of those products were just plastic-free and
01:56 --> 02:00 they weren't like really focused on performance or making sure
02:00 --> 02:04 that, that, that end user Um, was excited and would be willing
02:04 --> 02:08 to repurchase that thing. And so I found that, you know,
02:08 --> 02:11 with DIP, I was like, I know I can make excellent haircare in bar form.
02:12 --> 02:15 I know I can make something that will drive like a real forward
02:16 --> 02:19 change, but, you know, like, I, I wanted
02:20 --> 02:22 to change the world in a way that was a little bit more subtle and
02:22 --> 02:25 a little less fearmongery. And so that's, that's how I
02:26 --> 02:28 got here. You know, when I was learning about you, I was trying to put
02:29 --> 02:33 together these pieces that you're not essentially trying to do a retail
02:33 --> 02:36 brand for haircare, which I think is difficult
02:37 --> 02:40 in itself because you're essentially having to prove a product over and over again,
02:41 --> 02:44 especially to women that want to have to use it literally every day,
02:44 --> 02:48 right? But you're now also trying to help
02:48 --> 02:52 the world, which is a huge task, I think, try to do it
02:52 --> 02:55 on its own and you try to do it with a retail product. And then
02:55 --> 02:59 you're also trying to work, specialize And work
02:59 --> 03:03 with local-owned salons and businesses and retailers to
03:03 --> 03:06 help them grow while you're growing at the same time. Was that all
03:07 --> 03:10 written out all at the same time, or you was just like, I'm just gonna
03:10 --> 03:13 work on one piece at a time first and then put 'em all together later?
03:14 --> 03:17 Well, in my previous life, I was in business and marketing strategy,
03:17 --> 03:20 so I, I saw a lot of what not to do, and I saw a
03:21 --> 03:24 lot of what I didn't admire in business owners, I guess.
03:24 --> 03:28 And so what, what I wanted to do with Dip was I know
03:29 --> 03:33 that sustainability is a hard sell for people, especially when the economy is,
03:33 --> 03:37 you know, crunching down on our disposable income and everyone
03:37 --> 03:41 is, not everyone, but, but people are feeling the pinch of the economy right
03:41 --> 03:45 now. I wanted to kind of like create this system or
03:45 --> 03:48 this like network where, you know, my brand could
03:49 --> 03:53 thrive and through it, I could grow the business for
03:53 --> 03:58 sustainable stores around the country because I know that sustainability exists
03:58 --> 04:02 like in real life better than it does online. So there are
04:02 --> 04:05 these, there's this type of store called a refill store, a zero waste store.
04:06 --> 04:09 And I knew that because I'm a customer
04:09 --> 04:12 in a store like that, like I refill as much as I can from
04:13 --> 04:16 food to like laundry detergent to spices, even bubble bath
04:16 --> 04:19 for my kids. Like, I refill because I don't want more packaging in the
04:19 --> 04:23 world. And so I, my goal was to get someone who
04:24 --> 04:28 was excited about our haircare into a refill store so that they can accidentally
04:28 --> 04:31 fall in love with the other products in the store. 'Cause it's always kind of
04:31 --> 04:35 been bigger than shampoo and conditioner for me. And I think customers understand
04:36 --> 04:40 that. And so do, so does the network of stores. Yeah. Can you walk me
04:40 --> 04:44 through that experience of Were you
04:44 --> 04:47 door knocking? Were you going in or did you have a list of
04:47 --> 04:50 people that you, that you researched first and then you reached out to them and
04:50 --> 04:53 you went there? Could you walk us through that whole entire process?
04:55 --> 04:58 Yeah, you start with one, right? You start with one. You gotta get that first
04:58 --> 05:01 sale. You gotta get in, in the doors of that first one.
05:01 --> 05:05 Luckily for me, I was already a customer, so I had a relationship
05:05 --> 05:09 with a refill store owner and that network is pretty tight. So once
05:09 --> 05:13 your product starts to see success in one retailer, then it's easier
05:13 --> 05:15 to be bring that success or that, you know,
05:17 --> 05:20 kind of your own case study to another retailer and say, hey, this store's done
05:20 --> 05:24 really well. This is how we do it. We keep our stuff off of Amazon.
05:24 --> 05:28 We make it so that you can thrive and we don't undercut you online.
05:28 --> 05:32 Like we want, our goal is to watch you thrive so
05:32 --> 05:37 that sustainability becomes a bigger thing. And so I did door-to-door.
05:37 --> 05:41 I went, traveled all over the country. I found the refill stores, I called them.
05:41 --> 05:45 I did not email them. I called them all. Um, and you know,
05:45 --> 05:48 while everyone else was going digital, I went analog and it worked for me.
05:49 --> 05:52 And it's not that what I was doing was particularly that special.
05:52 --> 05:55 I, I saw that the success of Spanx and Sara Blakely,
05:56 --> 05:59 she literally went store to store and talked to people in real life. And I
06:00 --> 06:03 was like, that is actually something I can do, something I can do and something
06:03 --> 06:05 I can do well. And I, and that is how I grew it really.
06:05 --> 06:09 I, I knocked on doors and I said, if this isn't the best
06:09 --> 06:12 haircare, forget the fact that it's in a bar form. If it's not the best
06:12 --> 06:15 haircare you've ever tried. Then you don't need to call me back. But sometimes people
06:15 --> 06:18 would call me from their towel and be like, I want it for my store.
06:18 --> 06:21 Yeah. Cause I looked at the stores that you're located in. They're not,
06:22 --> 06:25 it's not like you're in the tri-state area, right? It's,
06:25 --> 06:29 you're all over the country. Were you doing that as a
06:29 --> 06:33 business, as a business travel, or would you like go on family
06:33 --> 06:36 vacations and be like, okay, while we're here, I'm going to look this up or
06:36 --> 06:39 both. Was it a combination of just wherever you went, I'm just going to knock
06:40 --> 06:43 on that door and have a conversation. Yeah. Okay. That's awesome. I have, for the
06:43 --> 06:46 past, I'd say 5 years, I've scheduled all trips,
06:46 --> 06:49 family vacations, everything around, is there a store there that I
06:50 --> 06:53 can approach? And that's one of the nice things about owning a
06:54 --> 06:57 company is that you can kind of, you know, work, if you work that into
06:57 --> 07:01 your marketing, you can work some of those business expenses in. Yeah. Yeah. Into the,
07:01 --> 07:05 into your P&L. Um, but that like, yeah, I, I, and I've
07:05 --> 07:08 been to all sorts of places I would've never been before. Like I had no
07:08 --> 07:11 other reason to go to like, Cincinnati, but I went there. I love
07:12 --> 07:15 the refill store there. I love the owner, Rachel, in that particular store.
07:16 --> 07:19 You know, Virginia, like Richmond, Virginia, I have a store
07:19 --> 07:23 owner there, Erin of Eco Inspired. She is our number
07:23 --> 07:26 2 retailer in the country. And I think a lot of that has to do
07:26 --> 07:29 with the fact that she and I now have a personal relationship where I went
07:29 --> 07:32 and bothered to go visit her in store and learn about
07:32 --> 07:36 her community and learn about her customers. And learn about her. And so,
07:37 --> 07:40 yeah, I, I actually really like it. There's so much of the country that is
07:40 --> 07:44 overlooked by brands, right? Because everyone's like focused on the
07:45 --> 07:48 coasts or the major cities, but most of the,
07:48 --> 07:51 most of the cool stuff in the United States happens
07:51 --> 07:55 in these smaller communities, I think. Yeah, I agree with
07:55 --> 07:58 you. I think, I think, you know, going back to what you were saying when
07:59 --> 08:03 you were in marketing, I'm sure they were just looking at how much the
08:03 --> 08:06 population, right? The big cities that we can just try to get a lot of
08:06 --> 08:09 it and then we'll figure out the rest and, and then we'll, we'll trickle
08:10 --> 08:13 in all those little other areas. When you, when you're looking to work with someone,
08:13 --> 08:17 are there certain criteria that you want as a partnership
08:18 --> 08:21 that are really important for you? Yeah. And the store and for store
08:21 --> 08:25 owners, the, the, I want someone to make
08:25 --> 08:29 sustainability feel like a party everyone's invited to. There's a lot
08:29 --> 08:33 of talk in sustainability of like who's allowed to participate in purity
08:33 --> 08:37 tests and all of these things. And I don't endorse that type of,
08:37 --> 08:41 I don't want to call it gatekeeping, but it's that type
08:41 --> 08:44 of sustainability that doesn't invite everyone. And I think that
08:45 --> 08:48 that is something that we see a lot digitally, but in real life,
08:48 --> 08:53 everyone's pretty cool and kind with one another. But there are
08:53 --> 08:56 some stores I have refused to sell in because of the way
08:56 --> 09:00 that they isolate certain customers. Yeah. And, you know, that was one
09:00 --> 09:04 of the questions I wanted to get to is you are,
09:04 --> 09:08 you're doing this without going into big brand stores.
09:08 --> 09:12 These are all just local small businesses that you're trying to help out there.
09:12 --> 09:16 Have you ever, has there come a moment that there was temptation
09:16 --> 09:19 to go into that direction and you had to really sit down with your husband
09:20 --> 09:23 and say, okay, we're, We're going to get away from what we, you know,
09:23 --> 09:26 our initial plan was. Was there any of those moments that happened?
09:27 --> 09:30 The only temptation I have as far as the big box is Costco
09:30 --> 09:34 because it makes, you know, our products last a long time and it,
09:34 --> 09:37 and it would make dip more accessible to families.
09:38 --> 09:42 You know, if there's no refill store, there's usually a Costco in that,
09:42 --> 09:45 in that area. So buying in bulk or buying, you know, that's, that is a
09:46 --> 09:49 sustainable move, whether it's in plastic or not, it's more sustainable to buy less packaging.
09:49 --> 09:53 But no, as far as like putting products on Amazon or doing any of these
09:54 --> 09:57 other things that would undercut our independent retailers, I don't,
09:58 --> 10:00 I don't have that temptation because I know them as humans.
10:01 --> 10:04 Like I, for example, like our conditioner lasts so long that,
10:05 --> 10:09 so it lasts about a year for most people. So if someone decided
10:10 --> 10:13 to make a purchase of our conditioner bar, like, so they bought
10:13 --> 10:16 the first one at the store and then saw it on Amazon after a year,
10:16 --> 10:20 bought their second bar on Amazon, that store now misses 2
10:20 --> 10:24 years of that person coming back. So I don't want that. That's not
10:24 --> 10:28 ideal for me. My, the mission is actually true. Like I want people to go
10:28 --> 10:31 into these sustainable stores and refill their hand soap, refill, whatever,
10:31 --> 10:35 like just to do the small things. It does feel good.
10:35 --> 10:38 And I'm not asking people to make like overhaul their entire lives and
10:39 --> 10:42 not shop on Amazon. That's ridiculous. I just want people to make like You
10:43 --> 10:46 know, you can make 3 to 5 changes in your, in your household. And that,
10:46 --> 10:50 that can make a big difference also to your wallet. Like there's, there's plenty
10:50 --> 10:53 of swaps that are really kind on your, on your bank account.
10:53 --> 10:57 Yeah. That's another point that you brought up that you're doing this to try
10:58 --> 11:01 to not have the customer purchase so many
11:01 --> 11:05 products from you in a sense. You're essentially doing, you're going against
11:06 --> 11:10 the grain in almost every aspect of a CBG product
11:10 --> 11:14 that I, the more I learned about this, I was like,
11:14 --> 11:17 this is incredible. It's almost like, it's almost like you're,
11:17 --> 11:21 you're the, the 5-foot guard that made it to the NBA and
11:22 --> 11:25 you, you're able to now win a championship. It's literally like that sense.
11:26 --> 11:29 And I mean, do you, do you, do you ever sit down and start to
11:29 --> 11:33 realize that about what you're doing as a business that you literally have, you're going
11:34 --> 11:37 against everything, you're going to every, and it's successful. I, I,
11:37 --> 11:41 I do think there's some sort of weird deep-rooted problem with authority. Like,
11:41 --> 11:45 I don't know what it, what it is. Yeah. Yeah. I, my mom was
11:45 --> 11:48 like really a rebellious eccentric person and she,
11:48 --> 11:50 you know, always told me to march to the beat of my own drum.
11:51 --> 11:53 And I think she may have, I, I think I may have marched a little
11:54 --> 11:57 too close to the sun, but it has, it's working. It's working. And I think
11:57 --> 12:00 the thing that really sticks with our customers is that they
12:01 --> 12:04 know we are not bombarding them with ads. We've never actually had to run
12:04 --> 12:07 ads. We, we don't bombard 'em with ads. We don't bombard 'em
12:08 --> 12:11 with emails. We don't bombard 'em with sales. We don't bombard
12:11 --> 12:14 them. We let them be. Enjoy your haircare for as long as it lasts
12:14 --> 12:18 and come back when you're ready for another one. And I know that that gets
12:18 --> 12:21 under a lot of people like marketers' skin. And I
12:21 --> 12:24 revel in, I like enjoy it. I enjoy that it annoys.
12:25 --> 12:28 I enjoy that it makes customers happy and marketers pissed.
12:29 --> 12:32 Okay. My next question is, because you're doing it in such,
12:33 --> 12:36 in against the grain and in this sort of out-of-the-norm way,
12:37 --> 12:40 do you have to run the business accordingly to that?
12:40 --> 12:43 Is there something— because you've been marketing, you've,
12:44 --> 12:47 you've, you worked with beauty products for, for decades, right?
12:47 --> 12:50 Are you, are you having to, to plan accordingly and be like,
12:51 --> 12:54 we're going to have to do this a little bit differently because of the way,
12:54 --> 12:57 the style that we're doing it now? Sometimes, you know, what's,
12:57 --> 13:02 what's really beautiful about D.I.P. is that, you know, started with me for
13:02 --> 13:04 the first 18 months and then my team has grown. Now we are 7 people
13:04 --> 13:08 strong and the whole team is on board with what
13:08 --> 13:11 we're doing and how we're doing it. And we all kind of get a kick
13:11 --> 13:15 out of, out of the success of doing less,
13:15 --> 13:18 I guess, if that makes sense. You're like this rebellious group of like,
13:18 --> 13:21 uh, of, of retailers just going out there. We're gonna try to kick their ass,
13:21 --> 13:24 you know? Yeah. I, I don't know. It's like, it's kind of funny. Like we,
13:25 --> 13:27 I mean, for example, and we also like, we take a lot of pride in
13:27 --> 13:31 how the company is run and like, for example, uh, A woman,
13:31 --> 13:35 she used our shower rack incorrectly and it ended up falling off of
13:35 --> 13:39 her wall and destroying her brand new bathtub. It's a heavy thing. If it,
13:39 --> 13:42 if you don't use it correctly and stick it to the wall correctly, like it,
13:42 --> 13:47 it's how it put a hole in her bathtub. This is like a $50 shower
13:47 --> 13:50 rack. And then it caused, you know, I would be devastated. So I wrote to
13:51 --> 13:53 her because she wrote us a bad review and I didn't ask her to take
13:53 --> 13:56 down the review or anything, but I was like, I would be devastated if I
13:56 --> 13:59 bought something and it destroyed my bathtub, whether I did it incorrectly or not.
13:59 --> 14:03 So like, we're gonna find a couple quotes of plumbers in your area,
14:03 --> 14:07 see who can fix it, and we'll take care of it for you. And she
14:07 --> 14:11 was like so blown away. Like, and you know— What are you
14:11 --> 14:14 doing? What are you doing? This is crazy that—
14:15 --> 14:18 It cost us $1 to fix it.
14:18 --> 14:22 And that's, yeah, it's not a fun bill to write, but that
14:23 --> 14:26 person I'm sure has, you know, 20 people that she knows in real
14:27 --> 14:30 life that she'll tell that story to. And I'm not telling a story for like,
14:30 --> 14:33 to pat myself on the back, but no, I totally get it. No, no one
14:33 --> 14:36 on the dip team was like, that's a stupid thing to do. Like, don't,
14:36 --> 14:39 you don't need to pay for that. Everyone was like, yeah, let's figure out,
14:39 --> 14:43 let's all, like my, you know, I have a human customer service person, Janet,
14:43 --> 14:46 who's amazing. And Janet was like, I'll call these 5 companies and see what we
14:47 --> 14:50 can get as quotes. And like, the customer didn't want the cheapest one to
14:51 --> 14:54 our dismay, but whatever's fine. We, we got her the expensive one that she wanted
14:55 --> 14:58 and she trusted. And like, I think When some, when a company does something that's
14:58 --> 15:02 so surprising, it, it builds its own like legendary status
15:03 --> 15:06 in, in, you know, in the, in that person's real life.
15:06 --> 15:10 Sure. 'Cause there are bigger companies, large corporations
15:10 --> 15:14 that would never do anything like that. Right. It's never, they'll just write something big.
15:14 --> 15:17 Hey, here's a $50 coupon for the next time you want to purchase something
15:18 --> 15:22 from us. Yeah. I think to go above and beyond really speaks true to who
15:22 --> 15:25 you are and who you are as a company. Wouldn't You're, I mean, when you,
15:25 --> 15:29 when you guys are like having team meetings, what, what's,
15:29 --> 15:32 what's the thought process behind that too? As you're moving forward,
15:32 --> 15:36 are you, how far are you looking ahead for the sustainability
15:36 --> 15:40 side to, to be able to, to change? Essentially,
15:40 --> 15:43 you're trying to change the world and then also grow this company
15:44 --> 15:47 in a way that's so different in terms of marketing.
15:48 --> 15:51 What, what is it? What are you guys thinking the next 5, 10 years it's
15:52 --> 15:56 going to look like for, for DIP? For us, our challenge is always getting
15:56 --> 15:59 like a new store to trust us or a
15:59 --> 16:02 new salon to trust the brand that we do what we say we're going to
16:02 --> 16:05 do. I think that's, that's a big hurdle. I think a lot of small stores
16:06 --> 16:09 invest in, in indie brands and then watch that
16:09 --> 16:12 brand like kind of built their clout on their backs and
16:13 --> 16:17 then go to Amazon and big box. So you see You know, it's getting them
16:17 --> 16:19 to trust that we're not actually gonna do that. I mean, I could have been
16:20 --> 16:23 on Amazon a long time ago. I could have 10x'd my sales on Amazon.
16:23 --> 16:26 I, to be honest, like it would be much easier for me to do that
16:26 --> 16:30 than to sell individually to indie stores, but it wouldn't move the needle
16:31 --> 16:34 in what the bigger picture is, which is not only sustainability, but also keeping
16:35 --> 16:38 these spaces in communities alive. Like small stores
16:39 --> 16:42 are, it's, it's not like a, it's not like a nice to have. It's For
16:43 --> 16:46 me, it's like, it's what makes a town a town. Like I,
16:46 --> 16:49 I live in a town that has, and I specifically chose it cuz it has
16:49 --> 16:53 like the, a cute ice cream store, a candy shop. Like it has
16:53 --> 16:57 like an independent hardware store and, and we
16:57 --> 17:01 shop at those places because the people working there are members
17:01 --> 17:05 of the community. It's a, it's a, it's a bigger conversation than it is about
17:05 --> 17:08 selling, buying and selling. It's, it's about what it means to be
17:09 --> 17:12 in a community, what it means to watch businesses close
17:12 --> 17:16 left and right and what the aftermath of letting all the local businesses
17:16 --> 17:19 close actually look like. Like, what does it mean for your town?
17:19 --> 17:23 It's, it, it would be devastating. Yeah. I think, I think that's,
17:23 --> 17:27 that's even harder now to do what you're doing in an
17:27 --> 17:31 economic time like we are in 2026. You know, you and I talked about
17:31 --> 17:35 before the recording that it was, it's, it's really tough
17:35 --> 17:39 right now. Money is just not spreading out into the economy. So I
17:40 --> 17:43 think for where you were going against the grain with putting
17:43 --> 17:47 something out there that could sustain for, let's say, a whole entire year and not
17:47 --> 17:50 someone not having to buy that. That's probably now the moment
17:51 --> 17:54 that people are talking about your products because they're like, this is great.
17:54 --> 17:57 You can buy this. You probably don't have to buy it until the end of
17:58 --> 18:00 2027, you know? Right. Yeah.
18:01 --> 18:04 Yeah. It's, but you know, I have one of my store
18:04 --> 18:09 owners in New Jersey. She's in Summit, New Jersey. She sold over $200
18:09 --> 18:13 worth of dip, like in just one store. That's a lot
18:13 --> 18:17 of, that's a lot of money to pay her rent, to pay her
18:17 --> 18:20 employees so she's able to have a day off. Like all of these things are
18:21 --> 18:24 very important. That is the bigger— sustainability is just like not
18:25 --> 18:29 about only plastic. It's about behavior. It's about how you treat
18:29 --> 18:33 people, I guess. Like it's beyond just pollution. It's sustainability
18:33 --> 18:37 has to do with like the the human side of it. And I
18:37 --> 18:41 think that having like some capitalism with a hefty dose
18:41 --> 18:45 of like empathy is, is important. I think when you get into
18:45 --> 18:48 these digital hellscapes where you, where you can't return
18:49 --> 18:52 anything or you're motivated by fake reviews or all
18:52 --> 18:56 the UGC is from non-customers, like, I think that that's
18:56 --> 19:00 where you kind of lose the plot. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And could you explain,
19:00 --> 19:04 'cause this is something that I wanna make sure we get into this episode.
19:05 --> 19:09 The moment that you started this in your house, in your kitchen,
19:09 --> 19:11 I'm assuming putting everything out there, dining room table,
19:12 --> 19:15 to figuring out how you're choosing the,
19:16 --> 19:19 I, I guess ingredients to go into what it is you're,
19:19 --> 19:23 you're selling. Can you walk us through that, you know, in the next 5
19:23 --> 19:26 minutes and, and explain that to us? Yeah. So first,
19:26 --> 19:30 when it comes to ingredients, so I, I have been in the beauty industry for
19:30 --> 19:33 20 years. So it's coming into building a
19:34 --> 19:37 beauty brand. I had connections and I knew for me in particular,
19:37 --> 19:41 I knew the chemist I wanted to work with. He's someone that had been making
19:41 --> 19:45 luxury haircare for 40 years. 40 years is a lot of
19:46 --> 19:49 over like kind of having a bird's eye view of trends and ingredients
19:49 --> 19:53 and knowing what was worth it and what wasn't and what's trending and what's
19:53 --> 19:57 not trending. And so, and what's clean and not clean. He also was someone
19:57 --> 20:00 who's very heavily involved with, um, the cosmetic
20:01 --> 20:04 chemistry, like world and, and was always on the
20:05 --> 20:07 pulse of new ingredients as well as kind of knowing the tried and true ones.
20:08 --> 20:11 And so I told them, I was like, I want something. This is, these are
20:11 --> 20:14 the problems I'm trying to solve. One is I want a shampoo that's gentle enough
20:14 --> 20:17 to use every day because I run. I'm an endurance runner. I want to shower
20:18 --> 20:20 every day. I don't want to go through the hat. Well, I'm wearing a hat
20:20 --> 20:24 now, but like the hat, the bun, like not washing
20:24 --> 20:26 every day because I don't want, I don't want to disrupt my scalp. Right.
20:26 --> 20:30 So I want it to be used every day if possible. And the conditioner,
20:30 --> 20:34 and I wanted it to just be gentle and the conditioner, I wanted it to
20:34 --> 20:37 satisfy all hair types and also be able to detangle my
20:38 --> 20:41 hair when I came out of surfing or came out of the pool or wherever.
20:41 --> 20:45 And so the big, having those 2 kind of, you know,
20:46 --> 20:49 the reasons why the products needed to exist helped
20:49 --> 20:53 narrow down how we formulated it. And actually for the all hair types piece
20:54 --> 20:58 of it, that was very, very challenging. Like we went through 40 iterations
20:58 --> 21:01 before it worked for someone with like fine like fine blonde hair or,
21:02 --> 21:05 and someone that had like type 4, like kinky coily, like really tight
21:05 --> 21:09 curls. But that was, I mean, one of those can do both. Like you're
21:09 --> 21:13 saying a product can do both. Yeah. So my, my best friend,
21:13 --> 21:16 um, she's, she's half Black, half Italian,
21:17 --> 21:20 and she has 3 different curl patterns in her hair and in
21:20 --> 21:23 her family. Like she has, you know, 4 different
21:23 --> 21:27 hair types, right? Like there's, I wanted to imagine a family buying
21:27 --> 21:31 shampoo and conditioner. It doesn't make sense in bar form for them to
21:32 --> 21:35 have 4 different sets of bars. There's no packaging. Like, how are you
21:36 --> 21:38 going to identify them all? Where are you going to store them? And so I
21:39 --> 21:42 think about, I built the company from the, from the perspective of
21:42 --> 21:46 family, like a fam— one family sharing a shower.
21:46 --> 21:50 Can they all use it? And if they can't all use the bars, then it's
21:50 --> 21:54 not a good product in my opinion, because I don't see,
21:54 --> 21:57 and not everyone wants to share bars. That's besides the point. Lots of families
21:58 --> 22:01 do, or couples or best friends or roommates, like they'll
22:01 --> 22:05 share the bars on their head. It's not, it's, it's, it's something that
22:05 --> 22:09 I didn't want people to have to buy multiples for the same household.
22:09 --> 22:12 Got it. And so when you found that chemist, you started working
22:12 --> 22:15 with them. You said you went through 40 of these to finally get to where
22:16 --> 22:19 you wanted to, to go. Yeah.
22:19 --> 22:22 How long did, how long did that process take? So when I say 40 of
22:23 --> 22:25 them, sometimes 5 different versions would come at once. Okay. So it wasn't like,
22:26 --> 22:29 It wasn't like one at a time and I was sitting on a throne being
22:29 --> 22:32 like, bad. No, no. It was like, they come, a bunch of them would come
22:33 --> 22:36 at once. And I, I'm very lucky to have a very diverse set of friends
22:37 --> 22:40 and family. And I put it, I had them all put it through the wringer.
22:40 --> 22:43 The part of the best part about living in New Jersey is people are very
22:43 --> 22:47 blunt and honest with you if they don't like something, you know? And so I
22:47 --> 22:51 just had them, you know, I had them critique the hell out of it until
22:51 --> 22:55 everyone was happy. And that was, that was, took a long
22:55 --> 22:58 time, but it was worth the effort. It was worth the effort. It was worth
22:58 --> 23:01 pulling my hair out and my chemist pulling his hair out being like, oh,
23:01 --> 23:04 when is it going to be the one? And once we came up with,
23:04 --> 23:07 with the, the one, the one formula, I knew
23:07 --> 23:10 that the next biggest part was making it smell amazing.
23:11 --> 23:14 And so I knew, I knew a lot about how people respond to different
23:14 --> 23:18 scents and the different categories of, of scents
23:18 --> 23:22 people are drawn to. So I tried to satisfy all, all scents, like,
23:22 --> 23:26 you know, in, in the development and, um, our custom scents are really,
23:26 --> 23:29 really beautiful. And then we also have fragrance-free for anyone who might, you know,
23:29 --> 23:33 be trying to avoid scents completely. And also if anyone's
23:33 --> 23:36 immunocompromised or, you know, going through IVF or cancer
23:37 --> 23:42 treatments, like all of those, those require fragrance-free, like you have to have amazing
23:42 --> 23:45 fragrance-free products available for people. Who are going through medical treatments.
23:45 --> 23:49 Like, it's, I don't know why every brand doesn't have a fragrance-free version.
23:49 --> 23:53 Yeah. I mean, that's incredible then to get into that
23:53 --> 23:56 deep. Cause I was thinking about that when you were, you're describing that,
23:56 --> 24:00 because when I did have hair, I went through this process.
24:00 --> 24:04 Right. And for my hair, you know, to have Asian hair, it was at that
24:04 --> 24:07 time, especially when I was growing up in the '90s, early 2000s,
24:07 --> 24:11 there was gel. Like there was same shampoo that was not
24:12 --> 24:15 for my hair. And I used to, I used to go and every week literally
24:15 --> 24:18 go in and buy different things. And I, after a while, just gave up.
24:18 --> 24:21 I was like, no one— I mean, now there's more products, right?
24:21 --> 24:24 More available products. But at the time I was thinking the same thing. I was
24:24 --> 24:27 like, this is crazy. Like, I know I'm not the only one, right?
24:27 --> 24:32 There's enough people with my hair that would go through this process
24:32 --> 24:36 and to just go, I'm just going to use
24:36 --> 24:39 whatever it's made for someone else. That's, you know, it sucks.
24:40 --> 24:44 When you're that moment when you finally found the right formula and you're
24:44 --> 24:48 starting to package it, get it out there, what was
24:48 --> 24:51 your process in that? Were you just,
24:51 --> 24:54 we're gonna start off small, a certain amount, and then start to
24:55 --> 24:58 figure out order as we go along? Or did you, like,
24:58 --> 25:02 what was your minimum order the first time you got, you started selling?
25:03 --> 25:07 So anyone who's building any kind of product, the best thing you can do upfront
25:07 --> 25:11 is try and negotiate low minimums to start. And so for myself,
25:11 --> 25:14 I negotiated down, I think it was like 250 of each,
25:15 --> 25:18 which is very small. But I was able to do that because
25:19 --> 25:22 I went through with, with my, um, before I
25:22 --> 25:26 had my own manufacturing facility with my contract manufacturer, I sold
25:26 --> 25:29 them on the dream. You gotta sell people on the dream. You gotta tell them
25:29 --> 25:31 like, this is the vision, this is how I'm gonna do it. And this is
25:32 --> 25:34 why you should, you know, believe in me a little bit and just you know,
25:35 --> 25:38 give us a small, make the buy-in small because the next
25:39 --> 25:41 purchase order is gonna be big. I can promise you. And like, that's, you have
25:41 --> 25:44 to have like a little bit of, uh, um, you gotta be your own hype
25:44 --> 25:48 person and you gotta have a little bit of audacity and
25:48 --> 25:51 you have to have that kind of radiance that gets someone
25:52 --> 25:54 excited about what you're trying to do. Even if you've already been working with these
25:55 --> 25:57 people, I was already working with these people to build it and then it came
25:57 --> 25:59 down to like ordering it and I, you know,
26:00 --> 26:04 Your cash is the, the only thing that matters in the beginning, right?
26:04 --> 26:07 Like you, you have to, you have to make sure that you don't,
26:08 --> 26:11 well, it's also so you can test the formula with customers or
26:11 --> 26:15 test your product with customers before you make any adjustments. So like for me,
26:15 --> 26:18 I wanted to make sure that I could buy a little bit,
26:19 --> 26:22 prove it again beyond my, my own, you know,
26:22 --> 26:25 like sphere of friends and family. Yeah.
26:26 --> 26:29 Yeah. Friends and family. And I wanted to prove it in the market before I
26:30 --> 26:33 went and put in the bigger purchase order. So we started with these small orders
26:33 --> 26:37 of 250 of each, and then eventually, you know, now I,
26:37 --> 26:41 now I have my own factory and we're doing like 100 units.
26:41 --> 26:44 It's crazy. It feels, it feels crazy.
26:45 --> 26:48 When was that moment that you realized that you needed to move to a factory?
26:49 --> 26:52 My contract manufacturer went bankrupt. They took a big purchase
26:53 --> 26:56 order from me and then just closed. It was a nightmare actually. I didn't know
26:57 --> 26:59 if I was gonna have a, a company. Like I didn't know. Um, and I,
26:59 --> 27:02 you know, I'm smiling now, but back then I was like puking blood. I didn't
27:02 --> 27:05 know like what was gonna happen. I had orders coming in. I couldn't fill them.
27:05 --> 27:08 I didn't know what was going on. And eventually I,
27:09 --> 27:13 you know, like I took some of the displaced workers and we now
27:13 --> 27:16 have our own facility. And, and it's the best thing I
27:17 --> 27:18 ever did. It was the scare— one of the scariest things I've ever done in
27:18 --> 27:23 business. I had no business or expertise or knowledge
27:23 --> 27:26 of the legal side of owning my own factory, but I do
27:27 --> 27:30 now. Yeah, I just gotta do it. Well, I was gonna ask you, one of
27:30 --> 27:33 my questions I wanted to get in was, what was one of the biggest hurdles
27:33 --> 27:37 that you have? Was that it? Was the— one of them, yeah.
27:38 --> 27:41 Or what do you think is another one that comes to mind? Uh, I think
27:41 --> 27:45 all of the crappy sustainable products that come that people have tried before Dip
27:45 --> 27:48 is my biggest hurdle. Because they're like, I'm not doing another bar.
27:48 --> 27:52 I'm not trying it. I'm not doing— I've already wasted so much money on
27:52 --> 27:55 these bars. I'm not doing it. And then, so I'm like, okay, just, that's why
27:55 --> 27:58 our money-back guarantee is that we like, we'll refund someone's shipping.
27:58 --> 28:02 We'll refund all of it, every single penny if you don't
28:02 --> 28:06 love the bars. And I mean, out of every 10 bars
28:07 --> 28:09 sold, I think like 6 get returned. Like it's a very, I mean,
28:10 --> 28:13 the people generally like it. I love it and stick with
28:14 --> 28:17 it. And that is amazing. And like all around the country at any,
28:17 --> 28:20 at any time, like I'm sure in the time that we've had this
28:21 --> 28:24 conversation, there are store owners telling people that
28:25 --> 28:27 it's great. Yeah. What, what has, what do you think is that,
28:28 --> 28:31 that missing piece that gets resolved? That's from someone that
28:31 --> 28:35 went through all these different bars and now they're like, okay, I'm going
28:35 --> 28:39 to give this one more shot. With DIP? What do you think is
28:39 --> 28:42 that, that final straw, whatever it is that gets them
28:43 --> 28:45 over and go, okay, let me do this. I tell them,
28:46 --> 28:50 my beef is not with hair science. My beef is with plastic. The hair
28:50 --> 28:54 science is still in there. Your hair is going to look amazing and shiny and
28:54 --> 28:57 beautiful after you use DIP. It's, it's the
28:58 --> 29:02 plastic I have the beef with. Like, I'm not, I don't have problems
29:02 --> 29:05 with, with science and cosmetic chemistry. Like, They're not all natural.
29:05 --> 29:09 I never wanted to make an all-natural product. I wanted a product that was so
29:09 --> 29:13 good and performed so well that the plastic-free
29:13 --> 29:17 part didn't have anything to do with it. And so once I tell people that,
29:17 --> 29:20 cuz to be honest, a lot of the bars out there are made in the
29:20 --> 29:24 same 10 factories with the same, very similar formulas and just
29:24 --> 29:27 like the marketing ingredients are changed. So someone, even if you switch from brand to
29:27 --> 29:31 brand to brand, you're getting the same, a very similar experience
29:32 --> 29:35 cuz it's a very similar formula. And so with Dip, our formulas are,
29:35 --> 29:39 you know, proprietary. They're, they're kept in our own facility.
29:39 --> 29:43 Like no one there, we don't make bars for other people and they're, they're actually
29:43 --> 29:47 very special. That's awesome. That's awesome. Okay. To start to close out.
29:47 --> 29:51 Okay. What's, what's next for Dip? Where, what are there
29:51 --> 29:53 certain products that are coming out that you wanna tell people about?
29:54 --> 29:57 Well, we just did a partnership. I can't say exactly what it is
29:57 --> 30:00 just yet until it goes out. Who knows what, which one of
30:00 --> 30:02 my competitors is listening to this and trying to take notes. Yeah.
30:04 --> 30:07 But we just did a partnership with Savannah College of Art and Design,
30:08 --> 30:11 SCAD, where that's where my, myself and my husband met
30:12 --> 30:15 in art school in Savannah a long time ago. And now we have a brand
30:15 --> 30:19 and we paid it forward to the students and did something called SCAD
30:19 --> 30:23 Pro where we challenged the students with a sustainability project
30:23 --> 30:26 that came out with our, our next launch.
30:27 --> 30:30 And so I can't say what it is just yet, but I want to
30:31 --> 30:35 say that the the students were very inspiring and like working with students to
30:35 --> 30:38 come up with, and it's a paid partnership with the university.
30:38 --> 30:42 So it wasn't like we, you know, they, the students got like course
30:43 --> 30:46 credit for it and everything. It was really cool. But like, we, I love talking
30:46 --> 30:50 to people who are going to inherit the earth, right? I, we're 25
30:50 --> 30:54 years ahead of them in our lifespan and talking to students about what their
30:54 --> 30:59 fears were for the future and what their hopes were for
30:59 --> 31:01 capitalism in general. Um, it was really inspiring and then they knocked it outta the
31:02 --> 31:05 park and made something really awesome that we are going to put into production.
31:05 --> 31:09 So that's awesome. I'll keep that mystery alive. Yeah, I'm looking
31:09 --> 31:12 forward to it. We're gonna try to, to keep up with it. Yeah, that's awesome.
31:12 --> 31:16 All right. And normally I'd ask, um, where can you find
31:16 --> 31:19 the product or, or find whatever it is you sell? But I feel like this
31:19 --> 31:22 is gonna be a little bit of a different, uh, way to explain
31:23 --> 31:26 this. So where Can people find it? Sure. You can go to dipalready.com
31:27 --> 31:30 and you can buy from our website. That's no problem. Or you can go,
31:31 --> 31:34 um, in the main bar, there's a store locator and it'll pull
31:34 --> 31:37 up the store closest to you. And it could be a surf shop, a salon,
31:37 --> 31:41 or a zero waste store. And if you haven't already explored
31:41 --> 31:44 any of those places in your town that pull up, please go and
31:44 --> 31:47 buy it from them. I make less money when you shop in the stores,
31:47 --> 31:50 but it is better for your neighborhood and better for wherever
31:51 --> 31:55 you live, if you, if you shop there. And, um, if you want to follow
31:55 --> 31:58 us online, it's @dipalready on Instagram and TikTok. Um,
31:58 --> 32:01 I'm always in the DMs on both if you have any questions. All right.
32:02 --> 32:04 Well, thank you so much, Kate. It's an amazing story.
32:05 --> 32:08 Um, please go support her products and, um,
32:08 --> 32:11 follow her for the next big thing that they're going to do. Thanks. Thank you
32:11 --> 32:15 for having me. This has been a good time. Yeah. Thanks, Kate. And this is
32:15 --> 32:15 Personal Side of Business.