19 Businesses Later: How Nathan Baws Builds, Scales, and Finds Opportunity Everywhere

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Personal Side of Business, where you hear real stories from real entrepreneurs.

[00:00:16] Hi and welcome to The Personal Side of Business, where every business has a story. I'm your host Jet Bunditwong and today my guest has over 40 years of business experience, has started and grown over 19 businesses and you might have seen him on Shark Tank Australia. Welcome to the podcast, Nathan Baws. Excellent. Jet, thanks for having me here mate. It's lovely to be here.

[00:00:39] Yeah, it's a pleasure, a pleasure. So let's start. You had a lot going on from your history, your stories. How did we get here? Yeah, I've been involved in business for a long time, since six years old. So when I first tried my first business, first hand business and didn't make any money.

[00:00:58] But I realized that that was the area that I wanted to be in and really love having fun with it. I enjoy, just enjoy the process so much. And since then I've done, yeah, as you say, probably around, it's probably a little bit over 19 now.

[00:01:11] I've been involved in different businesses. Some have done really well, some have done really badly and some I've lost a lot of money in and thankfully some I've had some pretty good exits from. So to me, it's just a big learning journey. Every day is another lesson or 10, depending on how aware you are and what you interpret things as.

[00:01:33] Yeah, I've been involved in all sorts of businesses. So from early days, from earthworm farm as a kid, paper airplanes was my first little crack at business because that was the only skill I had. And I thought that would be the idea of using a skill to make a business. And then I went into, I studied naturopathy, which is natural health. And back then, I remember the college said, you've got to use, they gave us these really expensive machines to practice on diagnosing people and things.

[00:02:02] And I thought, perfect, I'll take that to a marketplace in the business and practice on paid customers. So I did that and realized that I was starting to make some pretty amazing money there, which was so exciting because I previously not really made anything seriously. And in a weekend, I was making more than most people were making across a week. So that was really the exciting launch.

[00:02:30] And then I've done lots of different things like I built three health shops, created a vitamin supplement range that are sold across Australia, went to the UK and we played with property creative finance in property acquisitions and came back to Australia and then got involved in restaurants, built three restaurants, and then a brand of meals that we were pretty active in space, created a bookkeeping company, weight loss program in a couple of Bali hotels that we're just launching now.

[00:02:59] So, and a bunch of other stuff in the meantime, it's all fun and absolutely love the journey. So that's, that's where I get excited. That's amazing. Can I ask you, when do you feel like there was a moment that things started to click? Like when, when was a, was there a business point in the history timeline that you were like, this is it? I'm starting to get this and sort of make sense to me to be able to move forward with it and make money.

[00:03:25] Yeah. I guess in the, in the health industry, which was one of my early businesses when I was doing health shops and the supplement range, I just got off the back of managing pharmacies and learning from a pharmacist who is, who is an amazing, phenomenal businessman. And I had eight years of paid work with him, which is basically mentorship, which I just learned as much as I possibly could off him.

[00:03:50] And it was just a fantastic time. And I guess then going into business, taking what, everything that I learned from that and then putting it into practice. In my own businesses, I think that was when the sort of didn't, didn't really feel like the lights go on, but I just felt it was a natural process of progress of, of going from learning from him to implementation. And, and things worked really smoothly because I'd had all that background knowledge and that I'd accumulated through mentorship, basically.

[00:04:19] Yeah. I think that's one of the more important parts of business that not a lot of people get to always have is mentorship and learning from someone so that one, I think you can bypass some of the mistakes that they have gone through. And for you to be able to expedite that journey so you can get to making money and being able to run a business efficiently. I'm assuming a lot of what you've gone through, you're helping business owners now and what you're doing with your programs, correct?

[00:04:49] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, predominantly I'm focused on, on businesses, but also collaborations or joint ventures, basically bringing people together with great skills and, or databases or, or something that, that differentiate and that, that has a strong value to add to the relationship. And, and, and putting those sort of concepts together and, and, and putting those sort of concepts together and growing each other. So that's sort of what I focus on these days predominantly.

[00:05:15] Yeah. What do you, what do you feel like is some of the most important attributes that someone has in order to help a business that you're, you're finding in all these different people that, that really mesh well together? Yeah, definitely. The mindset is a very good starting point. So, you know, they have to be equally motivated that's, and they have to have that hunger.

[00:05:36] Otherwise, if that, if they're in the, the, the cycle of, I guess, contentment and satisfaction, then it's not going to be as, as a dynamic outcome as, as we could have someone who's further down the business journey and a little bit, you know, blase about things compared to someone who's very, very eager, very hungry. That makes a huge difference, particularly with a partnership.

[00:06:01] So finding people who are equally crazy as I am and passionate about things is a key starting point for a good relationship in business, I think. Do you, do you think, do you look at yourself ever outside of the Nathan box and just say, I, I think I have an obsession with starting businesses.

[00:06:23] Like that's, it's like, you probably have a addiction gene inside of you, but it's really towards trying to help people and make money at the same time. Guilty as charged. Absolutely. Yeah. Unfortunately I do. And, and I wrestle with it because I think it's, it's really good and I love it. I love that startup phase. It is so exciting because you can be so creative and I love that creative journey where you, you just go, okay, we can build that. Yep. There's a problem there.

[00:06:53] Let's create a solution around that. Let's monetize it. But it's, it is a problem that I've, I've had issues with in the past because this, once you open your eyes to opportunities, it's just ridiculous. There is opportunities everywhere. For those who say opportunities are dead and we're in an age where everything good has already been done. Absolutely rubbish. There, there is so much opportunity out there and it's really a, a question of, of narrowing it down. And that's what I'm trying to do now.

[00:07:21] I'm, I'm consciously pulling myself back from saying, oh, we could do, let's start a business in that. So, all right, this, take a deep breath, Nathan. And let's just think this one through first a little bit more. And so asking a lot of questions now before I jump into a new business and it's things like, what is the scalability of that business? What is the, what's the end point? And what's the growth projections? What could we make out of this business?

[00:07:50] And what is the physical amount of energy and input I'm going to have to put into this business before we get it to that growth phase? Because at the end of the day, you can probably make any business hugely successful. It's just time and energy. So energy that's diverted to that location is not going to be necessarily a good outcome. You know, you've got to choose.

[00:08:12] You've got to be very, very particular with where you put your energy because something diverted to one location means the energy and time comes off another location or another business. Yeah. And tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like as we get older, that energy has to be more focused because of just time on earth, but also for you to make really strong impacts on certain things in life.

[00:08:39] Right. I'm assuming you just want to get into business and just go into and it's like, I'm just going to do this for the sheer shits and giggles of it. But this is now becoming where I want to see this in the next five, 10 years actually come to fruition and really pay off for everyone involved. How do you start to choose what businesses that you're going after? Yeah. Based on skill set, it is good to a degree.

[00:09:04] But then I'll also start businesses like I've started a bookkeeping business in Australia and the US and we offer business growth with it. Because that's one of the key things that I've never, never got from my bookkeepers or accountants is, and I've always wanted it. I've always said, you know, what can you bring to help me with the business, not just crunch the numbers. And that was never, ever something offered by bookkeepers or accountants out there.

[00:09:29] So you're using the numbers to really help figure out what's going on with the business. I mean, that's a great direct look behind the curtains just to see like, hey, this is not working. Yeah. So there's that aspect. So we can bring that, the numbers into it, but also just pure business growth. What other things can we be doing? Because I've always thought the bookkeepers and the accountants are the perfect people to be able to help you with your business growth.

[00:09:55] And it's something they just generally don't have time for or the skill set. So that was a business that I created. I'm not strong at bookkeeping at all, but I brought together some phenomenal people who are really strong in the bookkeeping and accounting world. And I said, let's build this business because it's something I've always wanted and never received from my bookkeepers or accountants, is that where we really get it stuck into the trenches. And then, so what we do is we meet every month with our clients.

[00:10:25] They do, our team does all the books and keeps them up to date on a daily basis, but we meet every month and we go through, okay, what growth opportunities do you have with your business? So that's something that I really love doing. So that's what's brought to that business. Wow. That's great. That's great. What do you see when you're working with different businesses, especially from the financial side? What are the common mistakes that you see businesses get into over time that you tend to go,

[00:10:54] this is an easy fix or things that are just like, this is so common, but it's such a big detrimental impact to the business that it's hard to get out of from both sides. One of the biggest challenges I had when I started and what I see most people do in business is just be so entrenched in the business and they don't work enough on the business. So pulling back a little bit when you can, finding ways that you can do this because most people are so involved in the business

[00:11:22] and they haven't set up the right structures or systems or processes in place to be able to step back and start growing the business and working on the business. So I try and spend about 90% of my day working on the business, not in the business, working on anything that's going to add to the growth to bring more clients, love, love cold outreach, love anything that's going to generate more leads for the business.

[00:11:49] So that's what I'm generally doing through my day is directing my team to how can we bring more leads in. I mean, there's nothing more sexy on the planet than leads as far as I'm concerned. And I think most people just get so consumed in the daily activities of firefighting because they haven't leveraged the structure well enough to be able to pull back and then really grow the business. Yeah, that's a key one. Yeah. And when you're looking at these or helping businesses,

[00:12:17] what are some of the things that you implement that can be quick moving structural help to the business? I love anything that is cost, zero cost and gets results quickly. I think that's due to my background. I was brought up by a single parent and we lived on potatoes for a long period of time. Potatoes are very cheap. So that as a background has always made me think, all right, how can we do this without the budget?

[00:12:45] How can we grow a business without spending a cost, spending a dollar and high risk? So some of the processes involved in that is, as I mentioned, any sort of outreach. And at the moment, actually, we're very close to launching it. It's a, we've built an AI voice agent that will jump on the phone and call leads. And it's phenomenal what it's doing. It's absolutely amazing. It's almost impossible to tell that it's artificial intelligence.

[00:13:14] You know, it's not a real human. We got the Australian accent and everything. So it was really cool. That's great. So, yeah, so that sort of outreach is awesome. I love doing that. Joint Ventures is another one. It's a free one. You can collaborate with anyone. As long as you can bring real value to the relationship and an amazing offer, then, you know, you can really collaborate with other businesses in non-competing arenas

[00:13:44] that have the ideal customer database that you're after. So I absolutely love Joint Ventures. Actually, I put a free course to encourage people to get more people to get into it on it on my website. Very basic one. But just to start thinking about it, because Joint Ventures are just so powerful for growth. You can literally turn a business around overnight with them. And it's almost like networking on steroids, right?

[00:14:09] Like you're taking the connection of like-minded businesses or business owners, putting the businesses that won't conflict with each other, and then helping each other grow to be able to use that database to help each other. You know, I'm sure like a roofer and a solar panel cleaner are going to be a great fits for each other because they're in that same space. Is that the type of thing you're talking about? Exactly. Exactly right. Yeah. There's so many different types of Joint Ventures. And once you, again, it's like finding business opportunities.

[00:14:38] Once you open your eyes to them, it's very hard not to see them. So the basics are making sure it's in a non-competing. So for example, if I've got a restaurant, I'm not going to generally collaborate with another restaurant. Yeah. Or if it's a car dealership, you probably wouldn't collaborate with another car dealership. So you want to think outside of your direct industry to other industries that have your ideal customer base. So for example, a restaurant with a gym might be really well aligned.

[00:15:08] If you've got a healthy product on your menu, then collaborating with a gym could be really useful. They've got good database. You've got a completely different database, but the same ideal client and bringing an offer in that you can both really benefit from is just makes sense. You know, totally makes sense to grow each other. You know, just on a side note, is networking in Australia developed?

[00:15:36] Like are there programs or there, I know there's like BNI out there in Australia as well. And are there other types of organizations that help networking in Australia? There probably is. I generally don't get into a lot of it. BNI is big. I like just to outreach directly. So I like to direct message or pick up the phone and say, hey, you've got a great business. I've got a great business. Your clients are like mine. My clients are like yours, but different. Do you want to grow each other's business?

[00:16:06] That sort of stuff. Yeah. Just simplifying the concept. And it's really interesting because a lot of business owners are very, very open to it. So even though it may well be a cold pitch, it's a lot easier to do it that way than just to try and sell them something. So you're picking up the phone, you're doing a cold call and trying to sell them stuff. Then the pushback is way, way higher than saying, hey, I've got a great business. You've got a great business.

[00:16:35] Can we do something together? Like, let's add some value to each other's business and see where we go from there. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I think gets lost in, like you were saying, they're just in the trenches of running their business and not able to see this outside light is trying to figure out those connective pieces outside of business, like networking and working together.

[00:17:00] And, you know, there's, I've spoken to enough businesses where there's this percentage of businesses that are entrepreneurs and business owners that are sort of introverts, right? They, they love like, they're like the chef or something. They're like, I just want to be in the back. And that's where I think sometimes you need someone managing the business, really managing the business to look at it and go, okay, how can we grow this business? And we're just not waiting on customers to come in and buy food.

[00:17:28] We're now going to go out and grab customers, work together with other businesses. So we grow as a community. Do you, do you see that as sometimes the personality gets in the way? Because I know that's one of the things that you push is mindset, right? So when you're, you're dealing with that, how often do you see that? And what is your sort of switch for them to go, okay, this is what we need to do? Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely key because not most, most people are not comfortable getting out there

[00:17:57] and putting themselves into a vulnerable position. So there's a couple of strategies I love to do to work around that. One is creating that alternative offer when you're putting yourself out there that it's not a direct sales pitch. I hate direct selling. Instead, you're offering massive value. This is what I can bring to you. So it's just really pivoting on the pitch to get more comfortable.

[00:18:23] So you're saying something that that person is actually comfortable to deliver is a start. Secondly, I think you actually have to put yourself into that uncomfortable phase to actually grow. There's not too many ways around it and there's nothing like putting yourself out there. And I think if you know the numbers behind that action, whatever that action is, if picking up the telephone or, you know, I've done a lot of guerrilla marketing stunts in the past.

[00:18:52] Guerrilla marketing is fantastic where you really grab attention, but it's not really leverageable. Well, you can't scale a guerrilla tactic. You know, for example, we, my sister and I, when we were doing property in London, we got some big yellow ugly sign boards and we wrote on them with ugly handwriting and lots of mistakes. We said, buy my house and our phone number.

[00:19:16] And this was back in 2009, 2010, just after the global financial crisis and everyone had started. You couldn't buy or sell property because there was no finance available. So we thought we need to sell this property. We went to the most visible spot we could find and we, which was Tower Bridge in London, that iconic bridge. We walked across it with these ugly signs on and it was quite crazy.

[00:19:44] It was embarrassing and it was a bit humiliating, but we had buses pull up in the side of the street and the bus drivers yelling out and saying, what the hell are you doing? And, you know, people from all over the place stopping and reading these signs. As it happened, we got picked up and by loads of different newspapers. We were on the front cover in Qatar of a newspaper, went all around the world.

[00:20:09] The phone, because we had our phone number on there, the phone rang off the hook for the next 48 hours. We sold that flat and we had a whole bunch of other ones lined up at the end of that. So we knew that that humiliation and that embarrassment was worth 40,000 pounds to us back then. So we knew that. And knowing your numbers helps you move through that discomfort.

[00:20:34] Because if you're just doing it because you think it might be good, then it's very hard to get excited and push yourself through that discomfort. But if you know the other side of this discomfort is X amount of dollars or a better outcome or more visibility or whatever it is, it's a very good anchor that can push you through that discomfort. Yeah, I truly appreciate that.

[00:20:55] And one of the things that I think comes up a lot, you know, in my podcast talking with different people that help business owners is the lack of knowing your numbers and how businesses get lost in that. Right. We've spoken about this before on my podcast where people are great at something, you know, they're they're great at a certain trade. They're great chef. They're great at designing something.

[00:21:21] But when the business starts to evolve and get going, they're not really sure of their numbers because that's not what they're good at. You know, I'm not a good numbers person, but I've become better over time learning from different people. But when you're a brand new business owner and you're just getting into it, that's like the only thing you're trying to do is make a buck, make a buck. And then start to roll into it and it starts to snowball to something else.

[00:21:48] And you're just like, wait, is this making me money or am I just making money for the business? And I think trying to figure that out becomes really tough because you're at that point, you kind of want to do it yourself. But really, I will tell people, hey, if you're not good at figuring this out, hire someone, right? You can hire fractional CEO to come in and take a look at everything or have a bookkeeper or a really good CPA to come in and help.

[00:22:13] When when clients are going through that, do you start to suggest and see weaknesses and go, this is where they need to go? Hire someone for this. Hire someone for this. Get yourself out of there so you can concentrate on the business. Correct. Yeah, absolutely. And it is a bit challenging when cash flow is tight when you're first starting as well. So you do have to creatively think around that. So there's always a solution. We're never the first ones on the planet to find an answer to a problem.

[00:22:40] That problem more than likely exists previously and we just really have to find what the answer to it is. But starting with limited cash flow, there's lots of ways, as you mentioned, part-time fractional CFO, you can outsource. We outsource a lot of stuff to overseas and they're fantastic.

[00:22:58] Finding the right people is half the battle, but it's a lot more cost effective, which can allow you to focus on the stuff that you're super passionate about and outsource all that other horrible stuff that's soul destroying and that reduces your energy and your mood and your excitement. So those sort of things are very easy to do to find solutions to scale.

[00:23:24] But the key is, I think, to focus on what you love and, as you say, find other people that can do the rest of it. Yeah, and you know, one of the things that is the advantage that we didn't have years ago or decades ago is AI, right? To be able to bridge that gap right now, just to get some information until you have enough money to hire someone. You can start plugging things and go and ask them here, here's my PNLs, here's my expense report. Put everything up and say, what am I missing?

[00:23:52] You know, like, where can I improve and be able to use AI to really help you? So I think AI is going to help businesses and entrepreneurs in the next few years to really be able to get to where they need to go a lot faster. And it might not always be clean, but I think it's going to excel that learning curve a lot easier than when it was, you know, 20-something years ago.

[00:24:18] And we were just like, okay, I guess we're just going to figure this out on our own. You know, it is what it is. So much easier. So much easier now. I mean, you know, the whole mentorship thing, you used to have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for mentorship. And you can literally get it for 20 bucks or even free. You know, ask the questions. We're in an age of the – we're very fortunate to be in this age. I think it's so exciting.

[00:24:46] You know, I've built a business in four hours. But from the thought, the concept, to developing the marketing, to putting it on the website, to getting our first dollar in. And that would never have been possible before AI. It would take freaking ages to do anything. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:04] And, you know, I think I always go back even further for, you know, before we had anything digital where we can go to a software or an app and set everything up through that app. You have to go down to the city hall, give the papers, and set up the business, and then come back. I couldn't imagine the effort it would take for you to want to open a business.

[00:25:27] It had to be so strong that you were willing to do whatever it took to drive down, spend a whole entire day, and then get back maybe unknown and say, hey, there's something missing here. You've got to go back and do this again. Absolutely. We're really fortunate. So much respect for those people in the older generations that built these massive businesses and, you know, didn't even have sat nav. You know, they had to read a map the whole way, you know, to get from A to B to do a delivery.

[00:25:56] And it's like, we've got it so easy these days. It's unbelievable. Yeah. If an ideal type of industry, what do you think it would be right now if someone were, have really limited skills to start a business? What do you think is a good business to get started in? And maybe it might not be their forever business, but just to learn about business and entrepreneurship. Good question. I mean, at the moment, all the non-sexy businesses, as they're termed, are getting a lot of traction.

[00:26:25] You know, everyone's out there plugging these laundromats and these basic window washing and all those basic services that seem to be, yeah, just not exciting, but very much there for everyone needs them always. So they're sort of recession proof. They're always good to be on.

[00:26:46] But I think whatever you choose, as long as there's a bit of passion involved in it, that is going to be, I think, one of the key things to differentiate yourself and to make a business successful. Because so many people out there build a business on autopilot and just have no real passion or excitement and the customer feels it. And people buy off people they like.

[00:27:12] So if you don't have a little bit of something special to offer a customer, then, you know, just get out. It's enough boring, boring people. You can feel that. You can feel that sometimes when you walk into a store and you can tell that the business has driven the enjoyment out of someone. And they're just there because they don't know how to exit or do something else. And it's just like, I'm just going to wait this out and let this happen.

[00:27:40] And I feel like the community starts to feel that, too. Those customers that come in or they see you and they you're just not smiling the same way. And it's tough. You know, I always think about how that feels for someone that is starting to see numbers going in the wrong direction. And maybe they're, you know, someone in their family sick at the same time and they're trying to do try to find ways to go on vacation. They can.

[00:28:07] There's all these things that start to happen when you get into entrepreneurship and it's it's tough. And I'm assuming some of that is part of your mindset that you you you preach on right to try to get yourself in a really happy place to be able to have the business exude that happiness to the clientele. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's always going to be crap out there that goes on in your life and in your world.

[00:28:30] And half the challenge is to maintain a mindset that pushes you through, that gets you over the hurdles without burnout. So, yeah, I love to focus on dopamine creation. In my background in health, that was something that that we learned about and that I focus on a lot of my day is is stimulating more dopamine.

[00:28:52] So dopamine, the neurotransmitter in your brain, it's your reward drug that your body floods into your system after you've done something constructive or beneficial. And it keeps you motivated. It keeps you coming back to do more constructive things. Now, there's a lot of links to negative outcomes, you know, social media, doom scrolling and things like that, drugs, recreational drugs that stimulate dopamine. And it's it's not a healthy form and it's very short lived and you often crash after it.

[00:29:20] But there's a bunch of things that you can do on a daily basis to stimulate more dopamine to put you in a really good zone for business. And everything that I do, I always bring back to business, my health, my mindset and business structures and systems. The three of those things all go to to building a business.

[00:29:38] So although improving your health is great for your health, it's also fantastic for your business if it's done right, because so many people go through burnout and eat crap and feel like crap and wonder why they can't build a business off the back end of feeling exhausted.

[00:29:55] So the more we can do to stimulate dopamine, to give ourselves that motivation to keep going through the hurdles, through the tough times, eating well and eating, you know, avoiding sugar foods, keeping your blood sugar really stable. All those sort of things are fantastic for dopamine and pushing through the tough times. The other things, you know, music are fantastic. Music's great as an uplifting dopamine stimulant.

[00:30:22] So cold water therapy is probably one of the most amazing. If you do cold water plunges or ice baths, that can boost your dopamine levels up to 243% for a good few hours after the event. And if you can start your day with something like that, then that just puts you in the zone to add to a positive snowball effect. So these are all great.

[00:30:46] Yeah, I'm a big believer in trying to always improve on your mind, body and health in order to be able to function in other areas. Like you're saying, especially with businesses, I think it's easy to get unhealthy really quickly because you're stressed out all the time, you know, and then you start having bad eating habits.

[00:31:11] And then some people will get into smoking and drinking just to be able to calm the nerves down. And it's this snowball that just keeps going in the wrong direction. And I always think trying to save focus is really important, right? And, you know, business owners, you have to think as you get older, your body's not in a good state anyway to handle all of that stress coming from the outside world.

[00:31:35] Now you're like, well, I'm working 20 hour days in order to try to keep the business alive and I'm not sleeping well, I'm not eating well. So I totally agree. I think that trying to have that right amount of dopamine to be able to push you and get to keep your business going is important. You know, for you, what kind of business entrepreneur are you looking for right now that would work well with Nathan?

[00:31:59] Anyone with a good database that would slot into something that we're already doing or something that we have the skill set to bring value to would be it. What we do on a monthly basis is just connect with anyone who's got business challenges. It's a free thing. We love to nerd out about business growth and help people grow. That's something we do on a monthly basis. And often we'll establish collaborative outcomes.

[00:32:26] It's like, well, cool, we've got this business here that could slot into your database. We could do all this stuff for you. Those sort of things. And it sort of just comes together from there. Nice. Nice. Great. Love it. And Nathan, start to close. How can people find you? Yeah, on the website. Certainly reach out through there. We've got a little form if you need any help with business growth. As I say, we absolutely love that area and we'll help anyone with anything.

[00:32:53] And yeah, we just do that absolutely free every month on LinkedIn. You can always connect through there. Lots of good stuff going on there. Yeah, that's great. And I'm assuming that you help businesses all around the world. It doesn't have to just be in Australia, correct? Yeah. Yeah, we do a lot in the US and in Australia. But yeah, and the UK. But yeah, I mean, the fundamentals of business are the same.

[00:33:19] And the difference that you can make to a business with a bit of passion, a bit of excitement is pretty significant. That sort of stuff works everywhere globally. All right. Great. Well, thank you so much, Nathan. You guys, if you are looking for help with your business, please check out Nathan. I'm going to put all the information in the description. Please check him out and support what he is doing to help business owners. Nathan, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Lovely, Jeff. Pleasure to be here. Thanks, mate. Thank you. And this is a personal side of business.