Can you build a thriving business and still have the freedom to enjoy your life? Gary Mitchell believes you can have both.
For more than two decades, Gary has helped law firm owners strengthen their businesses, develop effective teams, and create greater freedom outside of work. In this episode, he joins Jet Bunditwong to discuss the principles behind his book, The AND Approach: How to Grow Your Law Firm and Gain More Freedom.
Gary explains how business owners can identify their greatest strengths, hire the right people, delegate without micromanaging, and create systems that allow the business to operate without depending on them for every decision. He also discusses the mindset shift required to move from being a skilled professional to becoming an effective business owner and leader.
In this episode:
- Why your business should support your life
- How to identify and focus on your strongest abilities
- Building a team with complementary skills
- Delegating without losing quality or control
- Creating systems that increase the value of your business
- Why consistency and daily habits matter
- Preventing the owner from becoming the company’s bottleneck
- Building a workplace culture where people can thrive
Learn more about Gary Mitchell and his coaching at OnTrackCoach.com. His book, The AND Approach: How to Grow Your Law Firm AND Gain More Freedom, is available on Amazon in print and Kindle editions.
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00:59 --> 01:02 Hi, and welcome to The Personal Side of Business, where every business has a story.
01:03 --> 01:06 I'm your host, Jeff Bundewald. Today, my guest is Gary Mitchell. For more than
01:06 --> 01:10 2 decades, he's been helping law firm owners build their businesses to create
01:10 --> 01:13 both success and freedom. His new book, The And Approach,
01:13 --> 01:16 argues that you don't have to choose between a thriving business and a fulfilling
01:16 --> 01:20 life. You can have both. Welcome to the podcast, Gary. My pleasure, Jeff. Happy to
01:21 --> 01:23 be here with you. Yeah. So let's start with your story. How did we get
01:24 --> 01:26 here? Okay. I'll give you the Coles Notes cuz I don't wanna take up the
01:27 --> 01:30 whole podcast time. Basically, I've always been a serial entrepreneur. I really
01:30 --> 01:34 have. Usually that's what happens with entrepreneurs. You have a
01:34 --> 01:36 certain bent, a certain, you want to create things, you want to build something.
01:37 --> 01:40 So I started my first business at 25 in Toronto.
01:40 --> 01:44 I built a national event, very successful national marketing partners
01:44 --> 01:46 with big companies, national media exposure.
01:47 --> 01:51 Had no previous experience, just got in there, got my hands dirty, tried things.
01:51 --> 01:55 Some things failed, learned like most entrepreneurs, right? Then I
01:55 --> 01:59 moved out. I By way of that business, I came out to Vancouver to promote
01:59 --> 02:02 the local, the regional event and fell in love with the place.
02:02 --> 02:06 I was like, what am I doing living in Toronto? I soon thereafter got
02:06 --> 02:10 back into politics, ran for Parliament 2004.
02:10 --> 02:14 That's the equivalent of the House of Representatives in the U.S. And thankfully I
02:14 --> 02:18 lost. And I mean that most sincerely. So as fortune would
02:18 --> 02:22 have it, I got approached by a lawyer to run his nomination campaign.
02:22 --> 02:25 That's like your primaries. So he would earn the right to become the candidate.
02:26 --> 02:29 I jumped at the opportunity with the political background that I had. This guy was
02:30 --> 02:34 a good candidate. Uh, well, good person. He knew nothing. He was a blank slate.
02:34 --> 02:37 So imagine an artist with a blank canvas, right? And all
02:37 --> 02:40 my experience, both in front, in front and in behind the
02:40 --> 02:44 scenes as volunteer and, uh, campaigner. So then he won the
02:44 --> 02:48 nomination and was adamant about me becoming his campaign manager. I reluctantly
02:48 --> 02:51 took on that role, but I did. And I was coaching him as a candidate.
02:52 --> 02:55 And it was, it was one of those life aha moments, Jeff. I had always
02:55 --> 02:59 been the guy and now I'm the guy behind the guy. And I really liked
02:59 --> 03:02 it. I really, really liked it. I don't mean from a power point
03:02 --> 03:06 of view or pulling the strings. I mean, from witnessing another
03:06 --> 03:09 human being go through transformation due in part to what I
03:10 --> 03:13 gave him. Right. I mean, he was a, in fairness, he was a
03:13 --> 03:16 complete sponge. He took it. Lawyers are smart when they're given the
03:17 --> 03:20 right direction. I mean, they learn quickly. He became an amazing candidate
03:21 --> 03:24 and was up against 2 veteran politicians. And in the last
03:24 --> 03:27 debate before the election, it was televised. He actually beat them. And I
03:28 --> 03:31 was sitting there in the studio. Right in the back, back end, I'm watching
03:31 --> 03:35 him on TV going, wow. So during this whole experience, his best friend,
03:35 --> 03:38 also a lawyer, took me aside one day and said, Gary, you really need to
03:39 --> 03:42 look at the legal industry. They really need help with these similar
03:42 --> 03:47 types of soft skills, people skills, which are transferable to business,
03:47 --> 03:51 right? Building relationships, networking, speaking, you know,
03:51 --> 03:55 the stuff that lawyers and most professionals are never trained in, right? It's not just
03:55 --> 03:58 lawyers, but My connections were to law.
03:59 --> 04:02 I knew a lot of lawyers from my political background. I then spent 9
04:02 --> 04:06 months researching online what was going on in the US, UK, and Australia,
04:07 --> 04:10 more locally what was going on in Canada. As serendipity would have it,
04:10 --> 04:14 the first chapter of the Legal Marketing Association, which had been around for,
04:14 --> 04:18 I think, 20 years at that point, the first chapter outside of the United
04:18 --> 04:21 States was being formed in Vancouver. I went to the forming meeting. I networked.
04:21 --> 04:25 I met numerous veteran legal marketers from the firms in the
04:26 --> 04:28 US, some of whom I'm still in touch with today, they're friends and colleagues,
04:29 --> 04:32 and just, you know, soaked in, just got as much information and
04:33 --> 04:36 understanding of the industry, lawyers, their needs, the challenges. And not soon after
04:37 --> 04:40 that, I landed my first client. 20 years in, I have niched over
04:40 --> 04:44 the last few years to drill down and work specifically with
04:44 --> 04:48 small law firm owners. And I'm loving it, Jet, because it's entrepreneur
04:48 --> 04:52 to entrepreneur. It reminds me back of the day when I was working directly with
04:52 --> 04:55 the candidate. It was just me and him, and we got so much done in
04:55 --> 04:59 such a short period of time. I mean, I do have this drive and
04:59 --> 05:03 now with the latest book, The AND Approach, this has become my mission.
05:04 --> 05:07 It's become my mission to show law firm owners and soon branching
05:07 --> 05:11 out to all other business owners that you can build a thriving business
05:11 --> 05:15 and have an amazing life with time to enjoy
05:15 --> 05:18 the fruits of all your labor. You put so much time and effort into growing
05:18 --> 05:22 your baby, your business. It's a shame when you see people just chained
05:22 --> 05:25 to the desk, right? Nothing, nothing moves unless
05:25 --> 05:28 they're involved. So this is now my mission and I'm very driven
05:29 --> 05:32 in spreading the word and showing as many business owners because I,
05:33 --> 05:36 you know, small business is at the heart of both economies in the United States
05:36 --> 05:40 and Canada. It accounts for, I can't remember the exact percentage, but it's
05:40 --> 05:43 up there around 80% of GDP. I think it's like 80-something.
05:44 --> 05:48 Yeah. Small business owners. I mean, we drive the economies
05:48 --> 05:51 of our countries and we're innovating. We're creating new things.
05:51 --> 05:54 I would like to see more people enjoy their lives around all
05:54 --> 05:58 the work they've put into that. You know? Yeah. I think, you know, from,
05:58 --> 06:02 from your book, there's a lot of things that, that I felt are really important
06:02 --> 06:06 to be able to spread out, not just in law firms and lawyers,
06:06 --> 06:09 but to be able to do a lot of different businesses. And one
06:09 --> 06:13 of them is building systems. Right? That, that you talk
06:13 --> 06:16 about. And I think that's one of the hardest things for small business owners to
06:16 --> 06:19 do in any industry. It's because you're starting this business,
06:20 --> 06:23 you're getting going, and you're just seeing, you're just seeing this tunnel that
06:23 --> 06:26 you have to try to get to the other side. And for a lot of
06:26 --> 06:29 times that tunnel goes on forever and you're just trying to do it. So for
06:29 --> 06:32 someone to come in there and go, hey, you need to step back for a
06:32 --> 06:35 second and start to build a system so you're not working until you're 85 years
06:36 --> 06:39 old. Maybe you can sell the business. Maybe hire people, start to have
06:39 --> 06:42 a vacation, start to have a life out of it. What are some of the
06:42 --> 06:46 things that you feel are important in a small business owner
06:47 --> 06:50 creating so they can build that life? Okay. This is such a good question and
06:50 --> 06:53 there's so much to unpack in it. First of all, you mentioned selling the
06:53 --> 06:57 business. So one of the first things I do when I work with a firm
06:57 --> 07:01 owner, and typically my clients are at a stage where they have already achieved success,
07:01 --> 07:05 they're usually doing over $2 million a year in revenue already. So they have,
07:05 --> 07:08 they have people working for them. They've hit some bumps.
07:09 --> 07:11 They've got some scars and bruises along the way,
07:12 --> 07:15 right? They've made some mistakes. They've had some success. They've reached a
07:15 --> 07:19 plateau. So the first thing I ask them is, what's your endgame? Where do you
07:19 --> 07:22 see this going? Because here's another example of the and approach.
07:23 --> 07:26 I want to start there and then back it, you know, reverse engineer
07:26 --> 07:30 it, back it to today. And what will happen is over the
07:31 --> 07:33 course of my working with them, we are not only going to have them gain
07:34 --> 07:37 more freedom and I will go into my formula. In just a minute, but I
07:37 --> 07:41 want to give the visual or the vision of this. Not only will they begin
07:41 --> 07:44 to gain more freedom, but they're going to increase the value of their firm
07:44 --> 07:49 or their company. So when it does come time for semi-retirement,
07:49 --> 07:53 full retirement, whatever their next stage of their career is,
07:53 --> 07:56 they have built something that is actually worth something, right?
07:57 --> 08:01 And that's because of the systems, the proven methodology,
08:01 --> 08:04 the team, the talent, You know, someone's coming in,
08:04 --> 08:07 they're buying a turnkey operation. They're not having to reinvent the
08:07 --> 08:11 wheel, including the branding. You know, I'll get them off their lawyer name and
08:11 --> 08:14 get a real, like more corporate kind of, I mean, I love branding.
08:14 --> 08:18 It's creative. I love everything creative. So where do we begin? We begin with a
08:18 --> 08:21 SWOT analysis of the owner, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities,
08:22 --> 08:25 and threats. Now the old school, Jet, I'm a little bit older than you.
08:25 --> 08:29 So in the early days of my entrepreneurial journey,
08:29 --> 08:32 all the books were talking about, you know, you look at your weaknesses. Fill up
08:32 --> 08:36 your socks, you know, fix this, fix that, get better at this,
08:36 --> 08:40 all that. You know, for most of us, it seemed logical. Yeah, we should
08:40 --> 08:44 probably improve our weaknesses. Well, then my number one guru for business
08:44 --> 08:48 leadership, organizational structure, Steve Jobs comes
08:48 --> 08:52 around and he turns that theory upside down in a big way.
08:52 --> 08:56 He said, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't, don't even worry about your weaknesses.
08:57 --> 09:00 Forget them. Turn all of your attention, focus, and energy to mastering
09:01 --> 09:04 your strengths. So I say to my clients, let's get you to become a
09:04 --> 09:08 Jedi, right? At what your strengths are. And that's not the same for
09:08 --> 09:11 every owner. We could talk about that in a— but that's the first step.
09:11 --> 09:15 From there, then we systematically build the A-team around them.
09:15 --> 09:19 So systematically building complementary skill sets and experiences
09:20 --> 09:23 around their strengths. In the meantime, we're filling the holes left
09:23 --> 09:26 by their weaknesses. And at the end of the day, this allows the owner
09:27 --> 09:30 to start delegating some of the responsibilities off
09:30 --> 09:33 his or her plate, off their desk, slowly but surely.
09:34 --> 09:37 Trust is a big issue with lawyers. Okay. I'm sure it is with other business
09:37 --> 09:41 owners. This is your baby, right? It's your thought. You've put your
09:41 --> 09:44 heart and soul into it, blood, sweat, and tears. It's hard to let
09:44 --> 09:48 go of control. For lawyers, letting go of control is a number one
09:49 --> 09:52 challenge to overcome for growth. And I will tell them very
09:53 --> 09:56 frankly, unless you learn to give give up some control,
09:57 --> 09:59 you will never grow to where you want to grow to. I'm going to help
10:00 --> 10:03 you. I'm going to show you how, right? You don't just do it overnight.
10:03 --> 10:07 You don't just, you know, and part of the problem here is that the
10:07 --> 10:11 hiring process as well is not—
10:11 --> 10:15 it's damaged. Most of the clients I've worked with will wait till the
10:15 --> 10:18 building's on fire before they make a hire. At that point, they don't have any
10:18 --> 10:22 time to properly instruct and do the proper delegation. So the
10:22 --> 10:25 junior tries to do the work, inevitably fails, comes back to the
10:25 --> 10:28 owner, the owner throws His or her hands up in the air and says,
10:29 --> 10:32 I knew it. I should have just done it myself. And this cycle perpetuates itself.
10:33 --> 10:36 So when I say hire the, the, the A-team, I mean, we need to get
10:36 --> 10:40 the right people. So step 1, SWOT analysis.
10:40 --> 10:43 Step 2, get the right people. Step 3, get them in
10:44 --> 10:47 the right roles. Just having the right people is not enough. We've got to make
10:47 --> 10:51 sure everybody is in the right roles functioning at their highest level,
10:51 --> 10:55 just like I've done with the law firm owner, whatever their highest function
10:55 --> 10:58 is. What happens is you've got people doing things faster,
10:58 --> 11:02 better, in less, in less time, less stress, less cost involved.
11:03 --> 11:06 And that's freeing up the owner. Then you give them the right direction.
11:07 --> 11:10 Critical. Okay. Another fault of lawyers, they're rushing the
11:10 --> 11:14 instruction. They've done the task a thousand times. It's in their head.
11:14 --> 11:17 It's like, you know, breathing, right? So they rush the delegation instruction.
11:18 --> 11:21 Then you plug them into the right systems. And here's another thing.
11:21 --> 11:24 The owner often feels they have to They have to like write everything
11:24 --> 11:28 down. They have to create all the systems and templates. And say,
11:28 --> 11:31 no, when you get the right people on the team, they're going to help you
11:31 --> 11:35 build those systems. They're going to help document everything. I mean, basically what
11:35 --> 11:39 we're talking about, Jeff, is creating the McDonald's of law firms or the McDonald's
11:39 --> 11:43 of any business. I mean, I don't eat that. I don't eat their food,
11:44 --> 11:48 but it is the most brilliant franchise ever created on the planet and
11:48 --> 11:52 every other food franchise and probably other franchises for that matter.
11:52 --> 11:56 Have been modeled after it because whether you're in San Diego, where you
11:56 --> 11:59 are, or Vancouver, where I am, or on the other side of the world,
11:59 --> 12:02 when you go into a McDonald's and order a burger, it's going to be the
12:02 --> 12:06 same, right? So we aim for the same thing in the law firm, whether it's
12:06 --> 12:09 Joe or it's Anna doing the legal work, it's going
12:09 --> 12:13 to be the same quality. And that is done by following systems and
12:13 --> 12:17 templates. So these are the patterns, the strategies that I
12:17 --> 12:21 help. It takes time. It sounds simple because it— I'm a fan of
12:21 --> 12:24 keeping things simple. But it's the only time I'm going to use, but simple
12:25 --> 12:28 does not mean easy. We are talking about human beings. All of
12:28 --> 12:32 this also takes great leadership.
12:32 --> 12:36 Okay. And great leadership takes putting the ego aside. Many law
12:36 --> 12:39 firm owners, many founders, business owners,
12:39 --> 12:42 entrepreneurs. This is a tough, it's a tough bit. I know I have
12:43 --> 12:46 a healthy ego. Creators, innovators, right? We have to have a certain
12:46 --> 12:49 level of ego to go and take the risks that we do. I mean,
12:50 --> 12:53 we're bordering on the insanity here. The risk we take in business.
12:53 --> 12:57 I was saying, I had this conversation to one of my best friends who is
12:57 --> 13:01 like the chair of the education department
13:01 --> 13:05 for university. So they're teaching future teachers, also academic.
13:05 --> 13:08 He goes, I don't, I could never do what you're doing. And I laughed and
13:09 --> 13:12 I said, well, if everyone could do it, everyone would be doing it because the
13:12 --> 13:16 freedom that we get from it is amazing. Right. I can work from anywhere in
13:16 --> 13:19 the world. My, and is traveling, bucket list travel, right?
13:19 --> 13:24 So we look at the end game. What's the plan? We reverse engineer
13:24 --> 13:27 and we put into practice these proven strategies.
13:28 --> 13:31 It's always a little different. Getting back to going on the law firm owner's strength
13:31 --> 13:36 and translating that to the business owner's strength, especially practitioners, right? Technical practitioners
13:36 --> 13:39 who have— it's a profession. On one hand, I had a law firm owner who
13:40 --> 13:43 wanted to grow the firm and is growing the firm, but wants nothing to do
13:43 --> 13:47 with leading it. He Completely runs away from HR and marketing.
13:47 --> 13:51 It's like he wants to be in the courtroom advocating for his clients.
13:51 --> 13:54 That's his juice. He thrives on it. Right. So I'm
13:55 --> 13:58 never going to try and change that. Right. That makes him happy. We all deserve
13:58 --> 14:01 to be happy in our work, in our careers. We're spending so many times,
14:02 --> 14:05 so much time at it. So we need to build his team around his strength.
14:05 --> 14:08 His strength is advocating. His strength is litigating in the courtroom.
14:09 --> 14:12 Okay, great. That we're going to find an amazing HR person.
14:13 --> 14:16 We're going to find an amazing marketing person. I bridge the gap for those until
14:16 --> 14:20 we find those professionals. And that allows, it frees him up to be
14:20 --> 14:23 doing the work he loves. Right. So he's growing the firm and he
14:23 --> 14:26 has the freedom to do the work he loves. More fulfilling.
14:27 --> 14:30 He's making tons of money, but he's not burning out trying to
14:30 --> 14:34 be all things to all people. So there's a quick overview of the process I
14:34 --> 14:37 work with my clients on. Yeah. Thank you for explaining that. I appreciate that because
14:37 --> 14:40 that That does seem like you can apply that to almost
14:41 --> 14:45 every business. And I think for you finding the strengths
14:45 --> 14:49 of it and then, and then filling those gaps in the, what, quote unquote weaknesses
14:49 --> 14:53 that the business owner needs to fulfill, I think it
14:53 --> 14:56 helps them to thrive, be happy, like you're
14:57 --> 15:00 saying, and then not have to worry about those parts that they're just like,
15:00 --> 15:03 I'm not good at this and I don't want to do this because I hear
15:03 --> 15:06 that a lot. I think there's a lot of business owners are like, especially with
15:06 --> 15:10 the marketing, especially with the areas of financial things like
15:10 --> 15:14 that, where they're just like, that's not my forte, but I love to be
15:14 --> 15:17 an electrician to build this out. But I think, you know, I wanted to ask
15:17 --> 15:21 you, you were explaining all of that is there's a little bit of a mindset
15:21 --> 15:24 shift that the business owner needs to go through as well,
15:24 --> 15:28 right? Because even though they love, even though that person loves to be
15:29 --> 15:33 in the trenches and do all those things, they still need to look at the
15:33 --> 15:36 goal that you were talking about and go, hey, you want to sell this,
15:36 --> 15:39 you want to do this, you can't do this forever. You're going to have to
15:40 --> 15:43 eventually start to move yourself into the right positioning and be
15:43 --> 15:47 able to set yourself up so that you're going to win in all these other
15:47 --> 15:51 aspects of the business, hiring the people, getting yourself to so you
15:51 --> 15:54 can live a healthier life, which I think that's
15:55 --> 15:59 part of this whole underlying thing. It's not just the freedom, but also To be
15:59 --> 16:02 able to be healthy, go into your 60s, 70s, and 80s and be able to
16:02 --> 16:06 enjoy it and not just be like, I'm miserable. Like I've just been working 80
16:06 --> 16:10 hours a week. Exactly. What are some of the tools that
16:10 --> 16:13 you use to help someone shift
16:13 --> 16:17 their mindset from, I need to do this this way, and then,
16:17 --> 16:21 you know what, I'm seeing the light. I'm able to catch
16:22 --> 16:25 what you're throwing at me to be able to get to my goal. Well,
16:26 --> 16:29 with lawyers, I mean, Let's face it, you know, as serendipity
16:29 --> 16:32 would have it, I started with the toughest crowd on the planet,
16:32 --> 16:37 the most skeptical, critical, analytical, risk-averse perfectionists
16:37 --> 16:40 on the planet. I mean, these are all human traits. We all
16:40 --> 16:44 have them, but I always think lawyers have them 100 times over,
16:44 --> 16:48 right? Than most, most average business owners. So we all have these traits.
16:49 --> 16:52 So I start by building the trust with them and letting them know I get
16:52 --> 16:55 them. I get how their brain works, the lawyer mind. And I
16:56 --> 16:59 go, there's a whole chapter in the book about this. The lawyer mind basically relies
16:59 --> 17:02 on left-brain functions, the analytical thinking, the critical thinking,
17:03 --> 17:06 which is exactly why we hire them, by the way. Right. That's exactly
17:07 --> 17:11 what we want from a lawyer. The entrepreneurial mind takes
17:11 --> 17:14 into account more right-brain functions of communication,
17:15 --> 17:19 collaboration, empathy, innovation, risk-taking, less risk
17:19 --> 17:22 aversity. Complete opposite.
17:22 --> 17:26 So the irony is the skills that make for a great lawyer impede
17:27 --> 17:31 these law firm owners from becoming great as a business owner.
17:31 --> 17:35 So I have to show them to wear 2 hats. Okay. And the
17:35 --> 17:38 percentage of what they decide, how much time they spend with those hats
17:39 --> 17:43 on, is it 80% lawyer hat, 20% entrepreneur hat, or 50/50?
17:43 --> 17:46 That's ultimately up to them. I'm not going to tell them. Right?
17:47 --> 17:51 Because again, it's their choice. It's their business, their life.
17:51 --> 17:55 And it's different with everyone. I've had clients that run the gamut, clients that could
17:55 --> 17:58 totally leave the— and have leave the law altogether and they're
17:59 --> 18:02 full-time CEOs. I'm like, great. And then this particular
18:03 --> 18:06 client I mentioned that wants nothing to do with it, obviously signs off
18:07 --> 18:10 on it, right? Will be a part of mentoring lawyers because
18:10 --> 18:14 somebody has to do the legal work. Right? And that the law firm owner
18:14 --> 18:17 will not be doing full-time legal work forever, as you mentioned.
18:17 --> 18:20 So a lot of it is helping them understand the way they think now and
18:21 --> 18:24 the way they need to be thinking in order to grow.
18:24 --> 18:28 Now, from the beginning, I said lawyers are very smart. So they, they can stumble
18:28 --> 18:32 along for many years and on the outside look successful. The revenue's
18:32 --> 18:36 coming in, they're, they're growing, uh, you know, they have the car,
18:36 --> 18:40 they have the home. They have the vacation. So it looks like
18:40 --> 18:44 they're, they're successful on the outside, but they're missing their daughter's soccer
18:44 --> 18:47 practice. They're missing their son's concert. They're missing their
18:48 --> 18:51 wedding anniversary dinner, right? When they're on vacation,
18:51 --> 18:55 it's like this for 2 weeks. You know, that's not success in
18:55 --> 18:58 my opinion. And the generational shift that's going on
18:58 --> 19:02 too with, uh, from Gen X, which I'm a part of,
19:02 --> 19:06 to millennial is more each generation seems to be grasping for
19:06 --> 19:10 more of the life part. Right? So we create a business to serve
19:10 --> 19:14 our life, not a life to serve our business. And that I see
19:14 --> 19:18 changing with each generation, that the percentage of people who
19:18 --> 19:21 want to have a quality of life, whatever that means for them, right? Again,
19:22 --> 19:25 your end, your why, it's different than mine, different than the
19:25 --> 19:28 guy across the street, the woman down, down the hall.
19:28 --> 19:32 The important thing is that you never lose sight of what your why is.
19:32 --> 19:36 What is the end? Right. I mentioned my end is bucket list travel.
19:36 --> 19:40 I'm fascinated with different cultures and history. And I'd like, that's my juice.
19:40 --> 19:44 And I get to work from wherever I am exploring in the world.
19:44 --> 19:47 I've, I have risked a lot. I have sacrificed a lot, but that's
19:48 --> 19:51 where I am. And I, I'm living my life right the way I
19:51 --> 19:54 want to on my terms. And so that's the mission. The mission is to help
19:55 --> 19:58 other people do that. And, and most people we've been
19:58 --> 20:02 conditioned to believe it has to be either or. But this one or that
20:02 --> 20:05 one. And I'm like, get rid of those words from your vocabulary.
20:06 --> 20:09 No more but, no more or, no more either.
20:09 --> 20:13 Replace all those words with and, because this is the irony of all this,
20:13 --> 20:17 Jeff, is in especially growing a business, right? I'm not an expert on
20:17 --> 20:20 everything on the planet. No, just growing a business, growing a law firm.
20:22 --> 20:25 The different combinations of ands are limitless. And when
20:26 --> 20:29 you get into it, you start to see this makes sense. That we're doing this
20:29 --> 20:34 and this and this and this all at the same time, because they're not separate.
20:34 --> 20:38 They're all intertwined. They're all related. And the impact of making small
20:38 --> 20:41 shifts in this area and this area and this
20:41 --> 20:45 area and this area, and I mean small shifts, not monumental.
20:45 --> 20:49 The impact is huge. Right. So, and something
20:49 --> 20:53 that you do, I guess, promote is consistency in those.
20:53 --> 20:56 Right. So I think like someone comes in and They're like, we'll just do this
20:56 --> 21:00 this first year. And maybe you, they're like, I'll check in every 6 months.
21:00 --> 21:02 And all of a sudden you go back and you're like, you did not do
21:03 --> 21:06 any of those things, but consistency. I think you have to be consistent
21:06 --> 21:10 in what you're doing for the longevity to reach those goals,
21:10 --> 21:13 especially for a lawyer, right? Yeah.
21:13 --> 21:17 That's the success of life. I mean, one of the greatest books I've read in
21:17 --> 21:19 the last 5 years is Atomic Habits.
21:20 --> 21:24 Thomas Clear, and I'm listening to this almost 3 years
21:24 --> 21:27 ago. It was near the end of '23. Oh, cause I was back in Toronto.
21:28 --> 21:31 It was winter. And I'm listening to it and I'm going, oh my God,
21:31 --> 21:34 this is what I've been teaching my clients for almost 20 years. You hit upon
21:34 --> 21:37 it, consistency. It's the habit. So lawyers always want,
21:38 --> 21:41 how much time should I spend on this every day? It's a
21:41 --> 21:44 classic. It's a classic question because lawyers always want a black
21:44 --> 21:48 or white answer. Okay. They want a definitive number. They're that, it's their
21:48 --> 21:51 mind. It's the way they think. So at first I laugh, I go, okay,
21:51 --> 21:55 what's more important than how much time you spend on this every day is that
21:56 --> 21:59 you get into the habit of doing it every day. Fitness trainers will tell you
22:00 --> 22:02 the same thing. It's not as important how long you are at the gym.
22:02 --> 22:06 It's that you get to the gym every day, that you build the habit
22:06 --> 22:09 of getting, putting the, putting your shorts on, putting your shirt on, putting those
22:10 --> 22:13 running shoes on, getting you out the door and to the gym.
22:14 --> 22:17 And I know this, I'm a big fitness buff. I've had many personal fitness trainers.
22:17 --> 22:21 It's the same thing. So the consistency, making it a habit. Habits generally
22:22 --> 22:25 form in, they say, 6 weeks to 3 months, and then it becomes
22:25 --> 22:29 second nature. Like, and I have so many of these systems that I've passed
22:29 --> 22:33 on to my clients. Some of them have been self-taught, frankly, because I've
22:33 --> 22:37 been, I've worked from home for 20 years, which takes discipline. So I've had to
22:37 --> 22:41 build systems. So I share those. Some of them are taught to me by
22:41 --> 22:44 my clients. Like we're co-creating them. In the coaching work,
22:44 --> 22:47 right? They have a challenge. We need to overcome it. We look at it,
22:48 --> 22:51 we find a solution, it works. And so that's another tool in the toolbox
22:51 --> 22:55 I can take to the next client engagement. Yeah. It is
22:55 --> 22:59 all about habits, consistency, and systems. And yeah, and it's
22:59 --> 23:03 fascinating. I mean, this is what, this is what makes for successful people is
23:03 --> 23:06 they find out what works and they keep doing the same thing over and
23:06 --> 23:10 over and over again. Yeah. And you know, there, there's another I
23:10 --> 23:13 felt theme that you have is kind of delegating,
23:14 --> 23:17 backing off, and being able, not being, not micromanaging.
23:17 --> 23:21 Oh yeah. Because that's, I would think for a lawyer, that's especially,
23:21 --> 23:25 I would think maybe for someone who's the first handful of years, right?
23:25 --> 23:29 They're like you're saying, they're doing things that they feel like are working and everything,
23:29 --> 23:32 they're successful at. And then you're asking them to go there and go, I need
23:32 --> 23:35 you to back off a little bit and then trust the process. Is that one
23:35 --> 23:37 of the harder things that you need to convince?
23:38 --> 23:42 Massively challenging. Massively challenging. Because you're dealing
23:42 --> 23:45 with their perfectionists, right? The control issues. They,
23:46 --> 23:49 they like to control things. It's massively. And so I
23:49 --> 23:52 tell them, well, first of all, I walk the walk. Okay. About 3
23:52 --> 23:56 months ago, my EA, executive assistant, gave me a compliment. I've given her
23:56 --> 23:59 many and I'm just so glad I hired her. I used to work with her
24:00 --> 24:03 a few years ago as a VA through a service and stopped that. And then
24:04 --> 24:07 I reached out to her last year because I'd already And already
24:07 --> 24:10 had the opportunity to work with her. So she says to me one day on
24:10 --> 24:14 our weekly call, we do a weekly meeting call. She goes, Gary, I just want
24:14 --> 24:17 to thank you for working, the opportunity to work with you. You, you give
24:18 --> 24:21 me free rein and you don't keep me on a leash. You don't micromanage me.
24:21 --> 24:24 My other client, it's also another professional service firm.
24:25 --> 24:28 They do micromanage. So I do walk the walk. I'm going to give you another
24:28 --> 24:31 quote from Steve Jobs. We don't hire smart people so we can tell
24:31 --> 24:35 them what to do. We hire smart people so they tell us what to
24:35 --> 24:39 do. Again, when you're building your A-team, ego aside, you hire the
24:39 --> 24:43 smartest people that you can possibly find. The most experienced,
24:43 --> 24:46 smartest people with the best attitude. But I must use the caveat.
24:47 --> 24:50 I say it in the book. I've said it for 20 years. The longer I'm
24:50 --> 24:53 on this planet, I'm proven this is over and over, right?
24:53 --> 24:57 99% of everything is attitude. So experience, attitude,
24:58 --> 25:02 and the skill sets. And This will help them relinquish some of
25:02 --> 25:05 the control when they can trust in the people around them. Right.
25:06 --> 25:09 It doesn't happen overnight, but they're not, they're not foolish. Just because
25:09 --> 25:12 it takes time for them to trust doesn't mean they're not capable of it.
25:13 --> 25:17 And the beauty thing of it with lawyers, and again, it's a human trait.
25:17 --> 25:20 Once you gain the trust, they're very, very loyal. Like it's
25:21 --> 25:24 tough to get it, but once you've got it, maintaining it, you just have to
25:24 --> 25:27 keep doing the same excellence. Right. But the delegating part,
25:28 --> 25:31 yeah, that's a massive thing we, I work with them on. And again, they're never
25:32 --> 25:35 trained in this. They, they've likely had poor examples of
25:36 --> 25:39 it from their generation when they were coming up. Right. In some cases I'm wrong.
25:39 --> 25:43 In some cases they've had excellent mentors who did put in the time,
25:43 --> 25:46 did show them the ropes, did, you know, but it's
25:47 --> 25:51 a, it's a cutthroat profession. In the bigger firms, the partners are, they're looking at
25:51 --> 25:55 their billable hour targets. They're looking at their profit per partner. That's their, that's their
25:55 --> 25:59 measuring stick. So not a lot of them make time for bringing the juniors up.
25:59 --> 26:02 It's kind of selfish, actually. It's why I don't like working with the bigger firms.
26:02 --> 26:05 I'm not aligned with those values, right?
26:06 --> 26:09 Yeah. And I was going to say, sorry to cut you
26:09 --> 26:13 off, but when, is there a threshold where you feel
26:13 --> 26:17 like, let's say for the amount of partners, employees, whatever it
26:17 --> 26:21 is that's inside that law firm, that you feel like it's, that's where it
26:21 --> 26:24 becomes uncomfortable to really work with? In, in, in general?
26:25 --> 26:28 I don't know. I don't, I can't say like there's a definitive number because every
26:29 --> 26:32 circumstance is different. You're working with different personalities, right? I've heard many times
26:33 --> 26:36 that 3 equity, so 3 owners is a good number because we are
26:36 --> 26:40 talking smaller firms, right? So you could have 3 owners and they could have 25
26:41 --> 26:45 associates or contract lawyers, right? That's still fairly, a fairly good
26:45 --> 26:49 size small firm. I like 3 because it's not an even number.
26:49 --> 26:53 It's, if you divide it evenly 3 ways, then someone
26:53 --> 26:56 has to be the sign-off, right? It can never
26:56 --> 26:59 be, you can't just sit there. They have to make decisions.
27:00 --> 27:03 They have to move forward. Again, you know, some of these clients, they will remain
27:03 --> 27:07 the only owner until they're getting closer to retirement and succession.
27:07 --> 27:10 Others will want to bring in partners at an early stage, right?
27:11 --> 27:14 Because they need the lead. They need the management team. So when
27:15 --> 27:18 we're building out the management, it can happen either 2 ways or 3, actually 3
27:18 --> 27:22 ways, all partners. So you've got lawyers, you've got partners with
27:22 --> 27:26 you, and each one is taking a different management role.
27:26 --> 27:30 Some people are prone to the marketing side. Some people are prone to the operations
27:30 --> 27:34 side, like the financial side of things, the bookkeeping, the accounting,
27:34 --> 27:38 the systems, the operations workflow, different skill sets,
27:38 --> 27:42 different personality traits. The second way route is professional management.
27:43 --> 27:46 So hiring a CEO or equivalent. COO,
27:47 --> 27:50 CMO, marketing director, marketing manager,
27:50 --> 27:53 whatever you want to call it, office manager. And the third option is a combination
27:53 --> 27:57 of both, which I tend to gravitate to. I do
27:57 --> 28:01 believe that lawyers should rely on professional management. They should
28:01 --> 28:04 not try to do things all on their own. Keep in mind, they're all working
28:05 --> 28:08 with a practice with their own clients at the same time, right? So it's like
28:08 --> 28:12 having, when you do, when you're in management as a lawyer, it's like having 2
28:12 --> 28:15 full-time jobs. One, your own practice, and 2, the managerial role
28:15 --> 28:18 that you you have. So I think it puts too much pressure on them.
28:19 --> 28:22 And why wouldn't you? I do. Why wouldn't you reach out to experts?
28:22 --> 28:26 If you're the expert lawyer, why wouldn't you reach out to a marketing expert
28:26 --> 28:30 and get them on your team? Why wouldn't you reach out to a leadership organizational
28:30 --> 28:33 expert and get them on your team all the way through? I mean, to me
28:33 --> 28:37 it makes sense. That's building your A-team, right? Like a sports team,
28:37 --> 28:40 right? Yeah. Baseball is my favorite. Baseball is my favorite sport.
28:41 --> 28:44 The role of the pitcher is very different from the role of the first baseman
28:44 --> 28:48 or the catcher or the outfielder. You need all of them to be
28:48 --> 28:51 a good game, a good team, right? It's the same thing as a business.
28:52 --> 28:55 It's not all the roles are not the same. And we have to get people
28:55 --> 28:58 in the highest functioning position, what they're best
28:59 --> 29:02 at. So when I start out with that model with a SWOT analysis,
29:03 --> 29:05 we're starting at the top. We're starting with the owner, but you must carry that
29:05 --> 29:09 formula through the entire organization. As you build down and wide,
29:10 --> 29:13 as you build down and wide across, because it's a winning formula.
29:14 --> 29:17 You don't give it up. You continue to use that winning formula as you build
29:18 --> 29:21 the firm. The good news is that there's a lot of talent
29:21 --> 29:24 out there that's unhappy with where they currently are.
29:24 --> 29:28 The opportunities, if you do this right, creating a culture of innovation,
29:29 --> 29:33 collaboration, and partnership, I've seen it, what you can attract in the way of talent.
29:33 --> 29:36 It's amazing. And then The other thing that lawyers will appreciate,
29:37 --> 29:40 they haven't experienced it as much perhaps as other business owners
29:41 --> 29:44 because their hiring policies, but when you get the right people,
29:44 --> 29:48 you don't have to micromanage because they have the right attitude.
29:48 --> 29:51 They show up to work, want to be there, want to contribute,
29:51 --> 29:55 will do whatever it takes, will contribute to the growth, will be
29:55 --> 29:58 a team player. And you're not going to have to look over your shoulder,
29:58 --> 30:01 right? You're going to have, you're going to build trust pretty quickly. So that's a
30:01 --> 30:04 relief, quite honestly. That's a relief. And I think that has to do with
30:05 --> 30:08 a lot of what you talk about with leadership. And I feel like in that
30:08 --> 30:11 leadership, you build a culture inside of a workplace. Absolutely.
30:12 --> 30:14 Yeah. Starts to work out. Like you have to, you have to build, you have
30:15 --> 30:18 to build a culture that allows your people permission to
30:18 --> 30:22 make mistakes. Yeah. To learn from those mistakes as you did, as I've done.
30:22 --> 30:26 Anybody who's honest, right? I was like, look at all the bruises on my forehead,
30:26 --> 30:29 all the mistakes I've made over the, over the years. Right. You have to create
30:29 --> 30:32 a culture that allows people to thrive, to come to the table
30:33 --> 30:36 with ideas, to not be pushed away. I recently was
30:36 --> 30:40 in text or email conversation with a former client and it became very
30:40 --> 30:44 clear to me he has not done that. And we'll get into the details,
30:44 --> 30:48 but we were, I brought up something and it was a trivial pursuit
30:48 --> 30:52 and he was being copied on all the emails. That was red flag number one.
30:52 --> 30:55 That's, that means he's the bottleneck for everything in the firm. Um, I wanted
30:56 --> 30:59 to also say he's been, he's very successful, 20 lawyers now.
30:59 --> 31:03 Okay. I'm not sure if he's 40 yet, maybe, maybe 40.
31:03 --> 31:06 I mean, that's, that's really outstanding, right?
31:06 --> 31:10 Um, but he's the bottleneck and I haven't had the opportunity and
31:10 --> 31:13 I may never get the opportunity to explain to him he's created that for himself
31:14 --> 31:17 because his people are afraid of making decisions. They're afraid
31:17 --> 31:21 of being proactive or taking the reins because he's created
31:21 --> 31:25 the culture. Where everything has to pass by him. So I
31:25 --> 31:28 assume unintentionally he's created a culture of reliance.
31:29 --> 31:33 Everything and everyone relies on him. And he will,
31:33 --> 31:36 if he hasn't already, he's going to hit that ceiling very quickly.
31:37 --> 31:40 He's going to hit the plateau, which is fine if he wants to continue working
31:40 --> 31:44 60 to 80 hours a week and, and not grow from there. That's his decision.
31:45 --> 31:48 It's his business. It wouldn't be my decision, but you know, again, I'm not
31:48 --> 31:52 here to dictate what people should do. I'm here to help them get to a
31:52 --> 31:55 better way of doing business. That's to enjoy more of
31:55 --> 31:58 their life if that's what they want. Yeah. Great. Thank you,
31:58 --> 32:02 Gary, for— we're going to wrap up. I have one last question for you.
32:02 --> 32:06 If you could give advice to a young lawyer just coming
32:06 --> 32:10 out of law school and try to catch them early on, what would that advice
32:10 --> 32:14 be? You know what I would say? Take some risk, go with your gut,
32:14 --> 32:17 surround yourself with outstanding people. Build a team of
32:17 --> 32:21 exceptional professionals around you and build your own law firm. Great. All right.
32:21 --> 32:25 Well, thank you, Gary Mitchell, for coming on The Personal Side of Business.
32:25 --> 32:30 Please check out his book. Gary, where can we find your book and, and get
32:30 --> 32:33 in touch with you? Because I want to bring up your OnTrack Coaching as well.
32:34 --> 32:36 Yeah. Uh, ontrackcoach.com. There's no K.
32:37 --> 32:41 ontrackcoach.com. I'm on LinkedIn. The book, The And Approach: How
32:41 --> 32:45 to Grow Your Law Firm and Gain More Freedom. It's on Amazon in hard copy
32:45 --> 32:49 and Kindle and working on the audiobook now. And we'll be putting up the
32:49 --> 32:52 companion chapter workbooks on the website,
32:52 --> 32:56 ontrackcoach.com, within the next 2 weeks. So you can go from theory right
32:56 --> 33:00 into execution. Next best thing to having your own coach will be those workbooks that
33:00 --> 33:04 will keep you accountable to the process. So lots going on.
33:04 --> 33:08 Reach out, whether you're a law firm owner or an entrepreneur, love to
33:08 --> 33:12 hear from you. I love speaking shop with other entrepreneurs and builders. All right.
33:12 --> 33:15 Well, great guys. You're a lawyer or you're just a business
33:16 --> 33:19 owner. Please reach out to Gary. Thank you, Gary, for coming on the show.
33:19 --> 33:22 My pleasure, Jeff. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Personal Side of Business.