From Air Force to Entrepreneurship with Lindsay Hinger

[00:00:10] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Hi, and welcome to The Personal Side of Business where every business has a story. I'm your host, Jet Bunditwong. And today, my guest is Lindsay Hinger. She's a business law specialist with the SBTDC in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. She specializes in helping veteran-owned and a military spouse-owned businesses.

[00:00:28] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:30] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Thank you so much, Jet. Appreciate it.

[00:00:33] - [Jet Bunditwong]
So tell us, how did we get here?

[00:00:35] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Oh my goodness. How did we get here? Okay. I grew up in North Carolina and I'm a Tar Heel, not born but bred for sure. After I went to UNC Chapel Hill, I went into the Air Force and was stationed in Hawaii for a couple years and I was specializing in logistics.

[00:00:56] - [Lindsay Hinger]
After I got out of the Air Force, I stayed in logistics in the commercial space for a few years and that was a thankless job. And then I started my first business in 2016. I sold that two years later. No. Three years later, but not before starting another company in, 2018, which I ran until 2023.

[00:01:21] - [Lindsay Hinger]
And then after that, I started, well, actually, before I closed the second business, I started working for the SPTDC. So that's how I got here.

[00:01:31] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Well, what was the connection that brought you to the SBTDC?

[00:01:37] - [Lindsay Hinger]
So when I had my first business, I went to an event for with NC VetBiz, the North Carolina Veterans Business Association, and that's for veteran and military spouse business owners. While I was there, the president of the association told me about the SVTDC. And, of course, I was like, the what? Because let's face it.

[00:02:01] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. Yeah. It is

[00:02:02] - [Lindsay Hinger]
It's hard to say and hard to remember. But after repeating it multiple times and then finally writing it down And going home, I went ahead and, you know, put in a request for counseling, and I became a client. And I was a client through both of my businesses. And the resources that I was given as a client were so good that I continue to give a lot of the same resources now to the people that I counsel.

[00:02:30] - [Jet Bunditwong]
That's great. Now what were your two businesses that you had?

[00:02:34] - [Lindsay Hinger]
So the first one was a subscription box business for military spouses. So it was a monthly care package that military the female girlfriend, fiancees, and spouses got. And it was kind of a reverse care package that they got on a monthly basis. And I thought it would be really cool if most of the products came from other military spouse-owned and veteran-owned businesses. So I parlayed that concept into my second business and I sold custom gift boxes in bulk using only those suppliers.

[00:03:11] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That was my second business.

[00:03:13] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Now, what I'm thinking, I'm curious about the challenge that that might give to your business because you're outsourcing it to all these different military, either spouses or veteran-owned businesses. Right? Mhmm. And they probably are moving around and they they could come up with some sort of logistical issue or some sort of sourcing issue, did you have to deal with that at all?

[00:03:38] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Oh, for sure. You know, supply chain crunches. I started in 2016, so I was in operation during COVID. And, of course, there were big supply chain issues. In fact, it actually was beneficial with the biggest customer that I had, which was Johnson and Johnson.

[00:04:02] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Progressively over the years, they wanted us to source closer and closer to home. And, by the time I was done with the second business, Johnson and Johnson was demanding that we had everything made in America from start to finish.

[00:04:19] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Wow.

[00:04:20] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That was hard. Oh my gosh. So hard especially because they had a budget. Yeah. And you know that stuff's not cheap.

[00:04:28] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. But what percentage at the time when you dealt with that were products made in The US and ones that were outsourced? Do you remember like roughly was it like a fifty fifty or did you have like sixty forty?

[00:04:43] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Probably probably about sixty forty domestic. Yeah. Because, you know, we had to balance between getting all, you know, as many Made in America products as possible, which sometimes they were, you know, handmade by military spouses versus something more like on the promotional product side, like a a mug that we have imprinted here in in The States, but it comes from China. Yeah. You know?

[00:05:16] - [Lindsay Hinger]
So we had a balance of and a mix of those products. So it wasn't too bad.

[00:05:21] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. And, well, how did you deal with the Johnson and Johnson situation? Was it was it easy to to just remedy? Did you just tell everyone go, hey. By the way, this is this is with your deal.

[00:05:33] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And if you can supply it, you know, great.

[00:05:36] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yeah. I mean, I just acted very proactively, and, we tried to get ahead of it. We tried to let them know that there would be delays if there were going to be delays. And, again, just trying to source closer to home so that it wouldn't be an issue.

[00:05:51] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Did you lose any vendors during that process?

[00:05:55] - [Lindsay Hinger]
We left we lost vendors that closed because of COVID.

[00:05:59] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:59] - [Lindsay Hinger]
But and, you know, probably because of the supply chain issues that they were having.

[00:06:07] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And I'm curious, what is did they give you a reason why they were only wanting domestically, you know, made products?

[00:06:15] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Just more initiatives.

[00:06:17] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Okay.

[00:06:18] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yeah. Over the years, they wanted they value Made in America products. And, you know, at first, it was our commitment was to provide only products that were veteran-owned or military spouse-owned. And that meant, you know, it could come from overseas and then be decorated here or finished here or whatever. And that evolved into made in America completely from start to finish.

[00:06:45] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And how did you figure out what what type of vendors you were gonna use for those packages?

[00:06:51] - [Lindsay Hinger]
So really, I had a formula for each box. It was kinda my baseline. It was I want something that you can feel, that excites, that helps, that you can eat or drink, and then one more thing and I can't remember what that was.

[00:07:10] - [Jet Bunditwong]
But you those were always to be in one box.

[00:07:13] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Right. Okay. Because I wanted to involve all the senses and I wanted it to be very well rounded. And and so I would actually come up with a theme and then just imagine what would be best in the box according to the theme. And then I would go and find it.

[00:07:34] - [Lindsay Hinger]
And that's what made it so hard is that I wasn't, like, approached by people who had products and they're like, look at my product and then I created a whole box around it. I created a box around my imagination. And it made it really cool because things the the themes really worked well together because they were just come up with by you know, my imagination and not just trying to put puzzle pieces together.

[00:08:05] - [Jet Bunditwong]
How long from conception to actually shipping out a box did that take to put all those different vendor items in?

[00:08:17] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Oh, I had it down to a short period of time. I mean, I was I only did my themes out by, two months, I think. Yeah. Because I worked with small suppliers, they had to have more time and more notice. But I'm a procrastinator, so that made it really difficult.

[00:08:43] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That was that was a big rub right there was, you know, I wanted to wait until the last minute because I'm still dealing with this month's theme.

[00:08:52] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah.

[00:08:52] - [Lindsay Hinger]
You know, I can't even put my head around this coming up one, this upcoming one and but you have to Yeah. For your small suppliers, you know.

[00:09:03] - [Jet Bunditwong]
What what were some of the items that if you can remember that sold the best or that were requested or, you know, customer

[00:09:11] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Like the most interesting themes, I guess, could be I mean, a cookout we had a cookout box that was a beer and brat's, like, recipe that was printed and it was beautiful. It was like this beautifully printed recipe for bratz or something like that. And then, like a dish towel that was printed with it was, like, specific to your branch of military. There was a bamboo cutting board in it, spices from a veteran-owned barbecue company. I can't remember what else was in that box, but usually we did four to seven items.

[00:09:54] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yeah. And averaged about five. And so that was a really good box. There was, oh, man. There was one that I remember we created a shot glass with middle finger on it, and it was it was like, here's here's my salute or something like that that we put on the shot glass and it was kind of a cheeky box that we had.

[00:10:24] - [Lindsay Hinger]
The whole thing was like don't don't talk to me crooked basically like or you're gonna get

[00:10:30] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Did that do well in certain regions of the country?

[00:10:34] - [Lindsay Hinger]
So I think the best reviews that that one got was from the South. The people in the South appreciated it the most. It wasn't one of the one time boxes. I think we sold out that month. So I didn't have it on the website to be able to really tell you.

[00:10:54] - [Jet Bunditwong]
So just to talk about the structure of the home business. So it was an e commerce space, right? And you you would have to order whatever's on the website or you can make it customized?

[00:11:06] - [Lindsay Hinger]
When people signed up, they signed up with their military branch and their shirt size. And that was as customized as it was gonna get. Yeah. Because each month, I would send out boxes to everyone who was signed up and then whatever boxes I had left over, I would put on the website as one time purchases. So, if I had five Air Force boxes, then, you know, and that was it, then an army person would be out of luck, that kind of thing.

[00:11:39] - [Lindsay Hinger]
So as if they wanted a box each month, they'd have to subscribe.

[00:11:43] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Okay. Alright. And was what was the difference in the second business that you learned from the first business to to change Uh-huh. And make better?

[00:11:54] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That's easy. Business to business is a lot more fun than business to consumer. That's what I learned. You know, I love people in general, but the general public is not as fun, you know.

[00:12:15] - [Jet Bunditwong]
To deal with as a customer base, I guess that Yeah. Yeah. What was what were some of the things that made it not enjoyable? Was it just sometimes you get complaints, people would want something else and

[00:12:29] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yeah. Or like I had one one woman who she went through every branch of the military. I was like, are you dating each branch of the military? And she gave me a hard time. Like, she complained about stuff, she would sign up and then cancel immediately and

[00:12:51] - [Jet Bunditwong]
But she'd keep coming back.

[00:12:52] - [Lindsay Hinger]
She kept back though. So I'm like I can't fire the customer because she keeps giving me money. Yeah. Yeah. But there were there were a couple weird situations like that.

[00:13:04] - [Jet Bunditwong]
With ecommerce, I always think it it it's tough. Right? Because I I've had a ecommerce business myself and I think one of the things that you end up falling into is that that sort of, I don't know, ecommerce purgatory where what like what you're saying. You're angry at the customers for complaining, dude. You're like, this is a product.

[00:13:29] - [Jet Bunditwong]
I don't buy it. But you're also like, oh, it's customers keep coming in and you just have to take a you just have to have to live with some of that.

[00:13:40] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yeah. Have to take it as it comes and store store it away, you know, store those comments away and it informs how you move forward. Yeah. It does. And you have to determine, you know, is this person an outlier or are they representing a majority of my customers by this complaint?

[00:14:04] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yep.

[00:14:05] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That makes a big difference. But sometimes you can spot the outlier.

[00:14:09] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yes. Yeah. Did you lose lose sleep? Alright.

[00:14:14] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I did not because I was married and I had my husband had a full time job.

[00:14:21] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Mhmm.

[00:14:22] - [Lindsay Hinger]
And so I knew that I was safe. I felt safe in that situation. I knew that I couldn't let my business die and I had no intention of doing that, so selling it was an accomplishment. But but yeah. No.

[00:14:43] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I I didn't really lose too much sleep.

[00:14:46] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. Those feedbacks, those they will always get to me. And they got easier as time went on when you were getting like a complaint or bad review. Mhmm. But you're just like, what are you doing?

[00:14:57] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Just because I always think of myself as a customer and like how long how much effort or or instance that goes wrong that brings me to put forth the effort to make a bad complaint. Like, it needs to be pretty high. Like, hey.

[00:15:12] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That's true.

[00:15:13] - [Jet Bunditwong]
I need to have, like, the product

[00:15:14] - [Lindsay Hinger]
But you're not everyone. I know. You're not everyone. And there are some people who it will take it'll take nothing for them to complain. Some people just wanna complain.

[00:15:26] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. I never understand that. I don't like your product, but I bought another one of your products.

[00:15:32] - [Lindsay Hinger]
What

[00:15:34] - [Jet Bunditwong]
was the the biggest thing you learned about how after those two businesses?

[00:15:41] - [Lindsay Hinger]
The biggest thing I learned

[00:15:44] - [Jet Bunditwong]
The most important thing you learned.

[00:15:46] - [Lindsay Hinger]
The most important thing was that I need to have difficult conversations. And I thought and that I thought I was confrontational before the businesses, but it turns out I'm not. I'm kind of a weenie when it comes to confrontation because I had a ten ninety nine employee with my second business and it wasn't going well. The relationship wasn't going well. And instead of addressing it, that was part of the reason that I closed the company down because I didn't feel like anyone else could really do what we were doing as well as we were doing, me and this this one woman.

[00:16:29] - [Lindsay Hinger]
But I never had the tough conversation about, you know, I think you need to have a come to Jesus meeting, you know, let's look at the core values, let's realign with each other and make sure that we're both rowing in the same direction, you know.

[00:16:49] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Do you think you could have those conversations now?

[00:16:54] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Absolutely. After so I closed my second business and part of the reason that I closed it was I was already working for the SPTDC. I had my plate full with that job and I had lost a lot of my passion for what I was doing. And then I also had that contractor and that wasn't going well. And to be honest, like I had a really great customer and they kept coming back and they kept giving me more money and more money.

[00:17:27] - [Lindsay Hinger]
But I only had one big contract and I felt like one big contract is not what you can sell, you know, it it that's not a business just having one big customer. So, and I just didn't have bandwidth to prepare it to sell either. So I shut it down. But going through that knowing that I had made all that money and then I just walked away from it, it it burns, it stings, you know. And I know that going forward I would not, I am not going to make that same mistake because it burns.

[00:18:07] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And I'm guessing you're gonna advise differently or not differently, but give people try to see that different outcome possibility for their business. Right? Maybe sell it or, you know, have someone else run it so they can, you know, do something else with their lives. I think that's something that is a reoccurring issue that I see over time for for businesses, for those baby boomers that have put their lives into this business, and they're just like, I think I'm just gonna close it down. Like, why are you not Yeah.

[00:18:44] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Trying to figure out a plan to either sell it, make something off of it. You spent twenty five years building this business or let someone run it and get percentage of it. You know? Why do you think people especially or pass possibly veterans and and military spouses might not see that path to sell it or or continue it in some other fashion where they're not a day to day, you know, operator anymore.

[00:19:16] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Mhmm. I think it's not specific to military spouses and veterans. I think most people, when they get into a business, don't think about their exit strategy. I know I didn't, you know. I just knew it had to start and it had to go.

[00:19:33] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I didn't think about how it would end. So, but also if military people are at an advantage, it would probably be because they don't have examples, not as many as you would in the civilian world.

[00:19:47] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. It what what obstacles do you have you encountered that veterans and military spouses deal with that might be different from the general public?

[00:19:58] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Mhmm. Yeah. So like I said, just experiencing a network of people who are in corporations or in small businesses or large businesses, you don't really experience that. You don't rub elbows with those people while you're in the military. And while the military does push innovation forward, there's also that dying culture of this is how we've always done it.

[00:20:31] - [Lindsay Hinger]
So it's very process oriented as well. And when someone gets out of the military, and goes into entrepreneurship, and it's like, oh my gosh, it's the wild wild west, you know, like, there are no SOPs to follow. What am I doing?

[00:20:48] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And and it's probably like coming from a really structured

[00:20:52] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yes.

[00:20:53] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Situation to you're on your own. Yes. You do whatever you need to do. Right.

[00:20:57] - [Lindsay Hinger]
And, you know, something that I I talk to military people about all the time is that you learn so much about teamwork while you're in the service. You need to use that when you get out. You can go really fast by yourself, but you can't get really far. So putting together a team around you can be extremely beneficial. And I think when veterans get out, they're kinda loners until they find their tribe again.

[00:21:31] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. And when the clients that you're dealing with, what kind of industries are predominantly coming to you Mhmm. That have you noticed?

[00:21:43] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I've had a lot of clients lately who are trying to service the baby boomers.

[00:21:49] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Oh.

[00:21:50] - [Lindsay Hinger]
The silver tsunami.

[00:21:52] - [Jet Bunditwong]
That's a yes. Yeah.

[00:21:54] - [Lindsay Hinger]
They I've had somebody who wants to help older people with mobile phones, with non medical transportation. I hear that quite a bit lately. Just care in general for older folks.

[00:22:13] - [Jet Bunditwong]
What education resources are available to veterans and military spouses?

[00:22:19] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Oh my gosh. There are so many. So contact me if you'd like to know more. But honestly, I have put together a, resource guide, and it's just, I think, three pages long, but it's a bunch of resources all across the nation. And it goes from, like, venture capital firms to entrepreneurial programs.

[00:22:41] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Some of them have capital associated with them and some don't. There are specific companies that help veterans with franchises that people don't know about.

[00:22:53] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Wow. I didn't know about that.

[00:22:55] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yeah. Vetfran Mhmm. Is one. And, IVMF is the Institute of Veterans and Military Families, and they're out of Syracuse University. They have so so many programs that veteran and military spouse entrepreneurs can engage in.

[00:23:14] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Like, I went to, their veteran edge conference two years in a row while I had my business, and it actually that experience spurred me on to my second business. And it was it was so worthwhile to go. And I I think it was free except for the travel part. You just had to get there and stay.

[00:23:40] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Now does that change if you're someone overseas as opposed to being in The United States? What difference is there in terms of resources and and I guess operations of business?

[00:23:55] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Very good question. So I would say that if you're overseas, your resources are limited because there are some programs, like DAV's, Patriot Boot Camp, that's in Cincinnati, Ohio. You can't get there if you're across the world.

[00:24:16] - [Jet Bunditwong]
So It's not like you can do a remote call in and and get assistance?

[00:24:20] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Not for that program. So it just it depends on the program, you know. And and we've actually developed a deployment checklist and a return from deployment checklist for people in those situations that, you know, they're gonna have to leave their business to someone else. We've got all the you gotta cross all your t's and dot all your i's with talking to your attorney and your insurance broker and getting everybody up to date on new contact information and all that stuff. So

[00:24:52] - [Jet Bunditwong]
I'm gonna speculate here and tell me if if you've if I'm correct or not and having to look this up. But I have, you know, living in San Diego, I've spoken to military spouses in different lines of work that I've been in. And I've noticed that when they start a business, it's usually a remote sort of remote controlled type of business, right, because they have to be it moves around. Right. But then a lot of times, there's this it's tough.

[00:25:22] - [Jet Bunditwong]
It's tough to keep running that because they're I've I've met military spouses that they have the kids, they're trying to start this business, and that energy kinda gets lost with raising the family. And they're trying to do this in, you know, the hours of like nine or twelve at night, and and they're exhausted. And then eventually, they get shipped overseas, and they're just like, okay. I'm gonna end this right now. I'll come back to whenever we come back.

[00:25:49] - [Jet Bunditwong]
What is your advice for those spouses that are struggling through that and go, I this I I wanna see this dream come true one day and and develop, but there's all these hurdles that keep life hurdles that keep getting thrown my way. Damn.

[00:26:09] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That's a hard question, Jack. I don't know. Jeez. Let's see. What advice would I give?

[00:26:18] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I would say to have quarterly goals and to focus on those quarterly goals, maybe even have a one page business plan where you have those goals highlighted. That way you can it would kinda serve as your true north. That way when all of the other things pop up, you can still head in the right direction.

[00:26:40] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think a lot of times I mean, I'm I don't know if anyone's ever sat down with me and was like, oh, I've mapped this out. I'm gonna do this. It's a lot of times just like, I, you know, I was up one night.

[00:26:55] - [Jet Bunditwong]
I saw this. I saw a little commercial online and I started getting involved in it. I'm gonna do this. But I think if there's this business plan that's has this weakness in it and go, what happens if I do get shipped out? Mhmm.

[00:27:11] - [Jet Bunditwong]
What's my next step to it? Yeah. It makes it a lot easier.

[00:27:14] - [Lindsay Hinger]
How do you mitigate that?

[00:27:15] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. And are there certain businesses or industries that you feel that military spouse can get into that that might be better suited for getting shipped out travel and and maybe someone who's has two, three kids and trying to keep that all together.

[00:27:36] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Mhmm. So I would say probably tech, remote tech positions or not positions, but tech companies. So building websites, you know, things like that that you can do with clients all over the world at any time. Yeah. Virtual assistance, if you can stay within the time zone, that's beneficial.

[00:28:03] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Is there any is there any that you like that you What do mean? Like, any industries that you really are like, this is I see the future for this, for veterans and military spouses that you think will really be

[00:28:15] - [Lindsay Hinger]
good. Drone manufacturing.

[00:28:17] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Oh, I like that.

[00:28:19] - [Lindsay Hinger]
That is what North Carolina needs right now.

[00:28:21] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah.

[00:28:22] - [Lindsay Hinger]
And I think I think the veterans are going to lead the way in that. You know? I, I'm pretty close with the defense technologies, director at the North Carolina Military Business Center, and they're really pushing for drone manufacturing right now. They actually had did I tell you this? They had Ukrainian veterans come in and talk to

[00:28:48] - [Jet Bunditwong]
No.

[00:28:48] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Our organization about, all the drone warfare that's going on in The Ukraine right now. And and there's a a national push for drone production here in The US. Wow. And there are zero drone manufacturing companies in North Carolina right now. So guess what my next venture's gonna be?

[00:29:11] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Just kidding.

[00:29:12] - [Jet Bunditwong]
So is that is that difficult to get into or start to finish?

[00:29:18] - [Lindsay Hinger]
It's me. I just came up with this idea this week. I have not looked into it. But no, I've got a client who oh, I can't talk about that. I've got a client who's involved in drone technology and so I know a little bit about it, but I don't know that much.

[00:29:37] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Wow. I mean, it's great, right? It's just trying to find something that is the the man is there, right? And I think that's I think with a lot of young and I don't mean that young in age, I mean young in entrepreneurship age, guess you can say. Mhmm.

[00:29:55] - [Jet Bunditwong]
When people get start their business journey, and I've talked about this before that there's this desire to get into stuff that you know.

[00:30:05] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yes.

[00:30:05] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Right? And then you're like, well, I I make this all the time or I I watch this a lot of this and it's not always what's in demand. That demand is sometimes so far from where you are Yes. Because you're like, I can't do that. And then but I've met people, you know, I've I've advised businesses that come in and go, I I'm gonna learn this.

[00:30:28] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And that's I think the one of the most admirable things in business owner entrepreneurship is for people that don't really know enough about industry and go put their foot forward and just keep going and learning it. And then one day they're like, I have a really successful business because I decided to just take the initiative. But it's because no one else was really doing it.

[00:30:51] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Yeah. So you're saying there's a chance.

[00:30:53] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. Yeah. It was to you flying drones and making drones all of a sudden.

[00:30:58] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Hell yeah.

[00:30:58] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Like I'm bombing the hell out of this. If if you could go back to your younger business self, what advice would you give to yourself that might change your whole entire both businesses?

[00:31:16] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I think I would have thought through the fulfillment aspect of what I did more thoroughly. However, if I had, I probably wouldn't have started the business because that was a big issue was I every time I would sell, in the back of my mind I'd be like, oh crap, that means I gotta do all the work, right? But then I looked into fulfillment, outsourcing fulfillment and it took so much of the margin away Yeah. That it was not worth it. Yep.

[00:31:57] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Right? So it was a it's a tough spot to be in to wanna sell and then not wanna sell at the same time.

[00:32:04] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. I think a lot I think a lot of people, especially when they get into ecommerce, feel that way. They're like, I just want this put this on autopilot.

[00:32:12] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Right.

[00:32:13] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And an auto that auto hot pilot costs money.

[00:32:16] - [Lindsay Hinger]
It does.

[00:32:17] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. It costs a lot. And I wish there was another way, right? And I think, you know, I've had this conversation with some ecommerce clients that are looking to get into certain platforms to sell on there and I'm like, it it might not be the long term solution. It just might be for you to get your brand out there and let people see it and you start once that happens, you can pull back and go, we're just selling this on the website now because we wanna keep more of the profits.

[00:32:48] - [Jet Bunditwong]
But it's almost like a necessary evil, right, to get on the Amazon, the Etsy's, the the you know, all those, Ebays and start to get your stuff out there. And you're like, I'm losing, like, 20% more on there, but what am I supposed to do? Right? I'm I'm I'm

[00:33:02] - [Lindsay Hinger]
It's for visibility. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:04] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And it's it's like it's like the steps that hurt you, but then there has to be this long term financial plan. You go, okay, we can do this for eight months just to get ourselves out there and then we stop and we do this. But I think a lot of people forget that part. They're just like, didn't get on here, and we're selling selling selling. I mean, I was I think at one point, I was guilty of it too when I was selling on Amazon, and I was like, oh, I didn't I I'm I'm not making money.

[00:33:30] - [Jet Bunditwong]
I'm just breaking even on there, but people were buying. So there's that emotional satisfaction, but financially, like, this is kind of pointless.

[00:33:40] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Mhmm.

[00:33:40] - [Jet Bunditwong]
But then in the long term, could help your business out until well, we found you on there, but it led to the website. Now I'm trying to go to the website.

[00:33:50] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Mhmm.

[00:33:50] - [Jet Bunditwong]
So you you might not sell at all. That's I guess that was the point that you were trying to make. You you would you would go back back to the future, stop yourself, go, never do this, and we're just gonna do something else.

[00:34:06] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Would you No. There there are so many things I would tell myself. Like, I've learned so much from working at the SBTDC. Let me tell you. I tell people, I tell my clients about my mistakes and I don't mind talking about them at all, But those are mistakes that I'm not gonna make again.

[00:34:27] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah.

[00:34:28] - [Lindsay Hinger]
You know? And it's because I've learned so much, like, I took a break, a long break from marketing during my business. You can't do that. Yeah. Like, I literally, like, went so I have mental health issues and I'm very open about that because I feel like you kinda have to be in order to end the stigma.

[00:34:52] - [Lindsay Hinger]
And I had a serious breakdown, and I did not answer emails for about three months.

[00:34:58] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Wow.

[00:35:00] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I was out of it. And when I came back to my business, there was hardly anything there. I hardly had any subscript subscribers left, you know, because you have to stay engaged. But I've learned so much about marketing that, you know, I know I was missing a marketing budget. I did not spend money on marketing.

[00:35:22] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I should have because volume is how you make money in subscription boxes. You have to have volume. And I never got there, you know. So it leads to a lot of frustration and it feels like a hobby.

[00:35:37] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. And it's like those those small moments, well I mean like three months, it's it's a long time, but Yeah. You have those moments where you're trying to live your life outside of entrepreneurship and be able to function, but it has to somehow align Mhmm. With this chaos of a business that you are trying to get off the ground. Mhmm.

[00:36:02] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And I have this theory that has no data to it that that is one of the biggest factors to derail a business, right? It What is That your regular life is just not matching up with business life. Because when everything's in harmony, if you were a single person who was opening up a food truck and had extra cash to just let you do that for a year or two and then have, I don't know, a a great network of people and you knew all these things if all these things align and it makes a business successful, you're like, that's great. Right? That's it's easier.

[00:36:44] - [Jet Bunditwong]
But then you have a single mother with three kids trying to run, let's say, you know, a retail shop in a major city and you have to try to get them back and forth from play like Right. They they after a while, something's gotta give. Right? Either the business takes off in a short period of time or you're just like, I can't keep this up because I need help. Know?

[00:37:07] - [Jet Bunditwong]
And if you don't have a resource of people or whatever it is to help you out, it's really hard to do. Yeah. So I always think there could have been so many different businesses that we've could have had in our lifetime that's seen that probably should have taken off but didn't because there was just something just didn't work right in a certain aspect. Right? And that was for you, three months, I mean that could have even if you went to one month, could have changed everything.

[00:37:37] - [Jet Bunditwong]
You know? Mhmm. Yeah. But you being here today in the bigger picture is more important than you losing your mental health over a business. Mhmm.

[00:37:49] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Right? So Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:37:52] - [Jet Bunditwong]
So and I don't know. I, you know, I I wish there was or there is this some sort of resource that is not more technical, but more of a, like, a therapy resource for business owners. Mhmm. I think that if there was that was available to coincide with all the technical aspects

[00:38:17] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Mhmm.

[00:38:17] - [Jet Bunditwong]
To help a business, we might see more successful businesses, you know, percentage that actually like, oh, that's all I needed was someone to to really talk to. You know? I mean, you and I

[00:38:29] - [Lindsay Hinger]
I think you're right. I mean, there are a lot of business owners that can't get out of their own way. Yeah. And all they need is to hear something from a different perspective or to be explained a different way and and they're off and running. So I mean, maybe the next venture is therapeutic business coach.

[00:38:49] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. Yeah. You you don't I don't advise you on any part of the business. I just advise you

[00:38:56] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Except your mentalness.

[00:38:57] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Yeah. Yeah. How to how to how to get through this. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:02] - [Jet Bunditwong]
So that's amazing and fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing. Where can people find you on

[00:39:10] - [Lindsay Hinger]
the Internet? Yeah. On LinkedIn, Lindsay Hinger. I think I'm the only one. And

[00:39:18] - [Jet Bunditwong]
With an a y.

[00:39:19] - [Lindsay Hinger]
A y. Yes, sir. L I n d s a y. And my email address is l hinger, that's like singer, butwithanh,lhinger@sbtdc.org.

[00:39:33] - [Jet Bunditwong]
Great. Well, thank you so much, Lindsay, for being on the show.

[00:39:37] - [Lindsay Hinger]
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.