Family, Freedom and 47 Countries | Attorney Matt Paré

Transcript note: This transcript was generated from the episode audio and lightly formatted for readability. Speakers are Jet Bunditwong and Matt Paré.

[00:01] Jet Bunditwong: Hi, and welcome to The Personal Side of Business where every business has a story. Today my guest is Matt Paré. He's a successful injury attorney here in San Diego. But Matt is not only successful legally, but he is one of the most worldly and traveled persons I know. Welcome to the podcast, Matt.

[00:23] Matt Paré: Well thanks Jet. I appreciate you having me. Thanks for the opportunity.

[00:25] Jet Bunditwong: Absolutely. So tell us how did we get here?

[00:28] Matt Paré: Well, so I grew up in Maine. I grew up in a small town in Maine and then I went to college in Boston. I lived in DC for a little bit too and then came out to California in two thousand five for law school and for the adventure of it. So that was twenty years ago at this point. came to law school at California Western in San Diego and then worked at a law firm for a year. And then went out on my own, had that entrepreneurial spirit, and then ever since then things have been going quite well. So

[01:04] Jet Bunditwong: Did you visit California prior to coming out?

[01:07] Matt Paré: Yeah, yeah, definitely been a few times. yeah, for sure. And and at that time, you know, especially growing up maybe in a small town on the east coast, California had this certain, you know, reputation or or sort of allure to it. so yeah.

[01:21] Jet Bunditwong: And it it's it's I mean, pretty different from Maine. I've been to Maine and wonderful people, everyone's nice, but it the winters get pretty cold.

[01:28] Matt Paré: Extremely. Yeah. It can snow like nine months out of the year. So it's a very different climate completely. but you know, we're big skiers too, so I like to like to ski. So we enjoy the the snow, but the weather overall here is much better.

[01:41] Jet Bunditwong: Actually that's something that you just remind me that you're you've been I I remember you mentioned to me a while back that you ski a lot. Yeah. I I mean yes from the New England or the northeast, you know.

[01:51] Matt Paré: Yeah. So, you know, growing up it was definitely part of our family's activities. But then more recently, you know, I taught all three of our kids and they're expert skiers too. And you know, we've last winter we went to Japan skiing and then also to the you know, the Swiss Alps and stuff like that. So they've been different places and they're all really good.

[02:10] Jet Bunditwong: Nice. And you know, I wanted I think that's a great segue into one of the things that fascinates me about you is the amount that you have traveled, w especially with your family, right? Can so I'm just gonna kinda dive into it. You've how many countries have you been to, do you know?

[02:27] Matt Paré: It's forty seven. Yeah. So quite a few. Yeah. And of course a lot of people like to travel and you know, who doesn't like to go on vacation, right? But I would say one of the things perhaps that makes it a little bit more unique in our case is that we do travel with you know, three kids. Yeah. And then number two, sometimes it's to some you know, places that are off the beaten path. Yeah. Right. And so, whether it's the Middle East or Africa or South America, Asia, you know, different things like that. But I've just made it a priority in terms of, you know, my own personal values as far as valuing experiences over possessions or objects. And so I think that it's it's not only a lot of fun, but it also, you know, the more places you see it it broadens your perspective and your understanding of the world and appreciation of different things. So it's just a passion, you know, and so as much as we can we get out there with the family and go on an adventure.

[03:26] Jet Bunditwong: Do you think one of your driving forces for traveling is to get your kids to experience like you know, I and I don't know if you did you get to travel when you were younger, as

[03:36] Matt Paré: Yes, not to the same degree. Yeah. You know. we we did some travelling, less international travelling, but yeah, so

[03:44] Jet Bunditwong: But your kids get to I mean, this is amazing for them, right? I think it's such a great way to help culturalize like to see things that normal kids wouldn't get to see and now they're they're probably holding on to these and and b I would say, you know, becoming better humans as they grow, right? They get to experience this.

[04:05] Matt Paré: I totally agree. Yeah. Completely. Yeah. So they see you know, the the good, bad, the ugly and and everything in between and get to appreciate certain things that we have here, but then also at the same time, you know, see the the beautiful and amazing things that are out there too, you know. So it's all of that is part of it. Of course, seeing different cultures as well, but you know, all the wonders of the world and and what have you.

[04:30] Jet Bunditwong: What what do you think has been the most transformative experience that you've gone through traveling?

[04:38] Matt Paré: yeah, per there's been a number, but you know, for example, interesting when we went to Israel and Palestine to s kind of see both sides of that, you know, before the conflict, but nevertheless you could kinda get a grounds eye view on on some of the feelings people had there. interesting also to see different parts of India where there's a level of poverty that we don't usually get exposed to. And so just to to see that first hand was quite eye opening.

[05:05] Jet Bunditwong: How do you choose where you're gonna go next for your family?

[05:09] Matt Paré: There's not necessarily any rhyme or reason to it. You know, my wife and I will just talk about it and like, yeah, how about there? Haven't been there and so it's it's not like super strategic, but you know, whatever kinda we were inclined to at that time. So

[05:22] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah. That's amazing. And what has been your favorite place that you've traveled to?

[05:28] Matt Paré: It's good question. I would say, you know, it depends on what category you're looking at. So for skiing, for example, I would say Switzerland. Uhhuh. if you're looking at something tropical, I would say, you know, either Maldives or Bora Bora or Seychelles, which is an island east of Africa, north of Madagascar. So it there it depends. you know, if you like tropical, there's a few good options there. I've been to Maldives a couple of times, but yeah, but It's hard to compare something like wintery versus something tropical, but yeah.

[06:02] Jet Bunditwong: I get it. And you know, we were talking right before the interview started that I think w you've built this d built this situation for your life that you've been able to travel because of the success you've had in your in your work, your career, right? What is what has been some of the things that you felt like has made you a really successful injury lawyer?

[06:27] Matt Paré: Huh. Well, to be a successful personal injury attorney, it takes quite a few things. first of all, you have to be extremely diligent about doing what you're supposed to do. So, you know, self-discipline goes into that. some of the individual tasks might be, you know, a little bit mundane or even boring, but just to have that discipline to do what needs to be done, that's that's a huge part of it. another thing I would say is persistence, right? you you have to just keep trying and trying and trying. you know, if you for example, you might call an insurance adjuster if they don't return your call right away, you you gotta stay on you know. that's just one small example. you know, another big thing I would say is relationships, right? So as an injury attorney, almost in all cases we're working with, you know, engineers and doctors, you know, particularly doctors. And so by developing relationships where we can refer clients to different doctors and medical groups, that's really key, and also have those people ready as, you know, expert witnesses if necessary. so that's a big part of it. And then also, you know, in addition to those relationships, also some resources, right? So personal injury litigation can be expensive and the costs are advanced by the attorney generally. So you know, I have to pay for those expert witnesses. So

[07:48] Jet Bunditwong: When someone's getting started in this field, in as when in your legal field, how are they supposed to take care of those expenses? Like how did you start out when to get involved in this?

[08:01] Matt Paré: That's a great question. All right. So for me personally, I worked at that law firm for a year and during that first year I developed you know, some book of business so I had some of my own clients. And then I was able to take those clients with me when I started my law practice. That way I wasn't starting from ground zero. And some of those cases were at different stages in the pipeline. So, you know, some of them were pretty close to resolving or settling. Some of them were maybe in the more beginning and so they might settle months down the road. But that was a very strategic thing to do so that y wasn't starting from totally ground zero. the other thing I'll mention is that in terms of that transition, of course I negotiated with that firm that I left and so we were splitting the attorneys fees on those cases so it was all, you know, like reasonable and fair to everyone involved. You know, so it wasn't like just taking the cases, it's negotiated and that sort of thing.

[08:58] Jet Bunditwong: Do do people often start with a firm and then branch out their own in in your field of law?

[09:07] Matt Paré: hard to s I would say probably that's more common. I think it's

[09:11] Jet Bunditwong: Makes more sense. I feel like financially it makes sense to and also education wise to get you know, learn how to do everything right before you go on your own.

[09:19] Matt Paré: Right. So it makes sense financially, like we discussed, makes sense in terms of learning, you know, how to actually practice personal injury law. So do you get some experience under your belt. so that makes a lot of sense. I guess the other thing I would add though too is that in terms of the like the timing on all that, if someone is like on that career path or or thinking about that, I think that it's easier to make that transition earlier compared to later in your life. So for me, for example, I made that transition to opening my own law practice before kids, before, you know, mortgage and before some of those financial obligations. So you're a little bit more free to take those risks and when your your monthly expenses are relatively low. I would just say, you know, for anyone listening, it's a little word of advice, it's easier to do that when you're a little bit younger Before you have those obligations, those commitments, people that are depending upon you. so do it sooner rather than later.

[10:24] Jet Bunditwong: Did you sit down and map this out early on?

[10:28] Matt Paré: no, I wouldn't say that. no. Wasn't wasn't like wasn't like totally planned out by any means. No.

[10:35] Jet Bunditwong: So when did you know you when did you know that you wanted to do law?

[10:41] Matt Paré: So for me, I you know, I went to law school with the idea of public service and political and government work, things of that nature, and you know, had a strong interest in that. You know, when you look at, you know, senators or members of Congress, it's pretty common that they went to law school, right? And so that was my thinking as far as, you know, why I had an interest in law school. When I was in law school, however, you know, I worked at this firm and it kind of opened up my eyes to, you know, some different possibilities. And so for personal injury law, you know, it's appealing for for two main reasons here. Number one, you can make a tremendous difference in the lives of the clients under the right circumstances. And number two, it's can also be very lucrative as far as supporting a family. Right. Compared to different areas of the law on different you know, specialties of personal injury, you you can definitely hit it big if it's the right case, you know.

[11:35] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah, so you so you there was it it seems methodical a little bit to to that you knew that in or this was a better field of law to get into, that you can build a future into it and it's you had interest into it. Like so it wasn't just like I'm gonna just float around and see whatever sticks for me.

[11:53] Matt Paré: Right. No, absolutely. some thinking went into this. And then also, you know, as far as the like the specifics of, you know, some of the the things that we do are kind of a good fit for some of my skills and talents. And so I think that's important too, you know, to find something that is a good match for your natural your natural talents, whatever that may be, right? And so for me it was a good fit. maybe for someone else it could be something different, but

[12:22] Jet Bunditwong: What do you when you say your skills into this, what do you feel like some of your skills that fit into personal injury law that match well?

[12:30] Matt Paré: Yeah, I would say communication and negotiation. Right. So the vast majority of personal injury claims settle by way of a negotiated agreement. And so to have some skillfulness at that I think is extremely important. and also not only communication with the opposing council, but also with clients and that sort of thing.

[12:50] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah. And now on the flip side for clients, I feel like there are people that get injured all the time, right? And they they through s accidents, circumstances, and they just kind of move forward with it, not thinking they should talk to a lawyer or get someone else involved. Can you give maybe some words to figure out when that time is, when a person should seek help or legal counseling? For an injury that they've had.

[13:21] Matt Paré: Sure. So what I would say is if someone was injured due to someone else's negligence and the person who is injured requires medical attention, you know, a course of medical treatment, that's a good indication that it may be appropriate to speak with a personal injury attorney, right? another circumstance is if someone is injured due to someone else's negligence and they don't have health insurance. Okay. And if they don't have access to medical care through a personal injury attorney such as myself, we can refer them to different providers, medical providers that would be able to provide that care that they might not otherwise have access to. Right. So by seeking counsel, it can be opening up a gateway of you know, resources as far as medical professionals that can see them on what's called a lien. And so what a lien means is that the the medical doctor gets paid at the conclusion of the Claims process, like typically out of the settlement. and so that's just a great resource to be able to provide. And also, you know, beyond that, it's like those some of these doctors that we refer patients to, they can also make for very good witnesses as well. Okay. So, like by contrast, if someone just for example, say a patient goes to either Kaiser or Sharp, and maybe they have that for their health plan. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the doctors that work for those sort of places they're not necessarily accustomed to preparing reports for the purposes of litigation. They're not accustomed to giving a deposition. They're certainly not familiar with, you know, testifying or anything like that. And so there are definitely those advantages of seeing a medical doctor on a lean basis because they do specialize in preparing reports that are gonna be useful for litigation. that are going to be just more familiar with that whole process and probably more helpful.

[15:21] Jet Bunditwong: Those I mean those connections that you're talking about are really important to having the right doctor in place. Yeah. Not just going around saying, Hey, can you just you know, look at this and there's like yeah, she looks fine. Right.

[15:33] Matt Paré: So yeah, the other thing that makes me think about is also the the timeliness of the medical care. All right. So at at some of those larger like HMOs or so those other healthcare providers, if you call them up to get an appointment, you're not necessarily going to get seen right away. You know, it may be weeks or even months down the line, particularly if you're looking for a specialist like an orthopedic doctor or a neurologist or anything like that, it's gonna be, you know, quite some time before you can get in there. And in the context of a personal injury claim, if there's a delay in treatment or if there's a gap in treatment, that's oftentimes a problem for the case because the in the like the auto insurance company is going to look at that and come to the conclusion that, well, the injury maybe wasn't really that severe because you didn't see a doctor right away. Now there could be a whole backstory to that as to, you know, maybe some rational reason, but nevertheless looking at it from their point of view, that's going to be kind of a red flag. Like, they didn't see a doctor for quite some time. And so if through these connections, through some of the doctors that I know, if we can get patients seen more quickly, then that's it's good for the claims process. not to mention the fact that, you know, there are some injuries, like particularly with MRI imaging, that if you wait too long, it won't show up anymore. And so there's a huge advantage to getting an MRI done relatively shortly after the accident. Right. And so again, through the connections that I have with these different providers, we can provide that service to my clients.

[17:09] Jet Bunditwong: Now, that's great information and I'm guessing that time and experience has helped you figure that all that process out. Type of thing.

[17:29] Matt Paré: Yeah, a huge part of it is experience. You know, you live through h handling cases and you learn as you go. also do a lot of continuing education and stuff like that. But yeah, it's a combination of that.

[17:41] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah. Are you allowed to talk about like what is what are some of the hardest parts of going through these cases? Like is examples, are you allowed to talk about yeah, you could talk about that like what what are what was if you can think history of all the cases you've done, what was something that really challenged you as a a lawyer?

[18:04] Matt Paré: Okay. Well, I can give you examples of that. So say in the context of a claim against a public entity, okay, just for example, say as a trip and a trip and fall on a on a sidewalk, okay? one of the challenging things is that we as, you know, plaintiffs' attorneys, we need to prove that the city had notice of the dangerous condition, right? and sometimes that can be pretty challenging, right? If the city says, you know, we we We didn't know the sidebuck is was in that condition, right? You know? and then so sometimes we have to get a little bit creative about establishing that notice. and there are different ways to go about that, but you know, that's certainly one example that can be a challenge, right?

[18:46] Jet Bunditwong: doing like the detective work, like working backwards, trying to figure out if anyone else had any instances of complaining or that type of thing.

[18:55] Matt Paré: Yeah. And I will say very recently, I I think this is actually quite fascinating, we've been able to use technology to help in this regard. So, you know, like with Google Maps, for example, you can go back in time and you can look at pictures at different points in time. You can see what the condition looked like a few years ago. And then if you're able to show that, the condition was there for, you know, several years we can establish what's called constructive notice so that the city should have known because the condition was there for a relatively long amount of time. The other thing that recently have I've incorporated into into my law practice is the use of artificial intelligence, and it's an absolute game changer. So I have a situation where, you know, it's a dangerous condition on public property, and I wanted to find out whether the city, you know, knew about it. Okay. And I sent a a public information request to the city of Chula Vista, and we didn't get anything meaningful in response, okay, unfortunately. But then I went to ChatGPT and I went to Grok and used some of these tools, and we were able to uncover that the city council had specifically discussed that location on multiple multiple times, and that there is also a government committee, the safety committee. That had at length discussed that particular problem in in this specific case. And so it was extremely strong evidence. Now, before those AI tools, this would be almost impossible to find. It would be like a needle in a haystack, right? the minutes of those, you know, public meetings, yeah, you'd have to go through who knows how many pages, right? But those tools were able to help us help us find that.

[20:44] Jet Bunditwong: That's amazing because so I'm gonna give you I actually wrote this article on my website that it was some of the career paths that you can have right now for the probably next fi ten, fifteen years that will not be affected by AI negatively, right? But and and a lawyer was one of them because I was like, you can you can only go I feel like you can only go so far with using AI to go into a courtroom and trying to help yourself out, but you're showing that you using that AI to actually help you become a better lawyer. Right. Right.

[21:22] Matt Paré: So yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. So you can use it as a tool. It doesn't it doesn't like take the place of you. The other way that I would put this is that the AI, it can give you maybe suggestions on, you know, what the law is or even what to do, but you know, an a a person like an attorney has to actually execute on that, right? So you have to actually do it. and then the other thing about AI, in my opinion, is it can really level the playing field, right? So I'm a sole practitioner. Meaning that, you know, I'm a a one man show here, so I have my own law practice. Which is, you know, pretty common in San Diego legal community. There are a lot of sole practitioners. But if there's you know, a very large law firm that might have a ton of support staff to sift through, you know, a huge amount of documentary evidence, that's one thing. But now with the AI tools, someone that comes from a soul practitioner setting is is on a much more even playing field here because it it just makes things so much more efficient in terms of finding that finding the evidence and and so forth.

[22:23] Jet Bunditwong: Have you thought about where AI can take you into other parts of this research that you need to do as a lawyer? Like have during this time where you're like, this might actually work in this other area if I decide to use it.

[22:39] Matt Paré: I guess we'll have to see. You know, the story that I shared about those, you know, the minutes of the city council and so forth, that was the most you know, powerful and sort of aha moment that the AI is gonna be a tremendous tool. but we'll see where it goes from here.

[22:54] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah, there was a a case, I don't know if you saw it on the news where this woman was she was actually fighting something against a s a city that she was living in and she had went there the first time and showed proof of whatever was she was fighting against And City turned it down and they were like, You lose in court, you're not gonna get this and then sh she went back, used AI and found they were like, Could you help me figure out like what I'm missing here? AI gave her some points, she went back there and she won the the case.

[23:26] Matt Paré: Yeah, amazing. Yeah. No, it's it's not surprising. yeah, it's very useful. Very useful. the other thing it's useful for too is also like analyzing voluminous medical records, right? And so otherwise it could take a huge number of hours to sift through thousands of pages of medical records, but with the help of AI you can you can do that instantaneously.

[23:48] Jet Bunditwong: Now, there is still this aspect that you as a legal professional needs to check everything to make sure that you're not trusting it completely.

[23:57] Matt Paré: Yeah, yeah. Especially with legal citations. I mean the in the legal field there's numerous cases where people have been, you know, punished or reprimanded if they inappropriately relied upon this and didn't double check it. there are cases where AI unfortunately has sort of hallucinated things that you know, cases that didn't exist and so yeah, you have to do your due diligence. but pres Provided that someone is doing their due diligence and they're, you know, verifying what they're looking at, it's still a amazing tool.

[24:30] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah, you know, just outside of AI, since you started how many years have you been in practice?

[24:35] Matt Paré: So went to law school in two thousand five and graduated in two thousand eight. So since then, yeah. So yeah.

[24:42] Jet Bunditwong: What do you feel has been some of the key changes in the legal field, especially for yours of personal injury, that have either been good or bad, that have affected the way that you've practiced law?

[24:57] Matt Paré: the biggest change was during COVID, that's when everyone started to use video conferencing and Zoom and for case management conferences, for depositions, even for mediations and things like that. And since that time, that's actually stayed as industry standard or expectation or norm, you would say it's like normal. it's for those sort of routine court appearances. as well as depositions, the norm is to do it on Zoom now, right? So that is a significant change.

[25:31] Jet Bunditwong: I'm assuming that's helped you w w work more efficiently in terms of time, right? Like you can yeah, get to more cases throughout the day.

[25:39] Matt Paré: Right. No, it's true. it's definitely more efficient, more convenient, less traveling. it does have some maybe disadvantages because if you're not face to face the the like the communication might be not as good. but overall, yeah, it has many conveniences and it's economical too.

[25:59] Jet Bunditwong: What is something that you felt like you've had you've improved, I guess, as a person to help you in the profession?

[26:10] Matt Paré: what do you mean by that exactly?

[26:11] Jet Bunditwong: So if let's say if you had to speak better or you had to work on concentration, anything, is there been a tool that you've like, this was my weak spot as a person and I've had to make it better to try to help my profession at the thing. Is something you've you've felt like you've worked on?

[26:31] Matt Paré: Yeah, well th I mean, many things I've improved upon along the way. definitely. You know, I would say, you know, the importance of, you know, setting client expectations, for example, the importance of being proactive about, you know, working up a case, retaining experts, taking depositions, all of those things. you know, you learn with time the importance of all that stuff.

[26:54] Jet Bunditwong: improve a lot of I guess I'm gonna say like work eth not ethic but work structures, right? Like you're like I I need to to do this better in order to make this flow better later on, that type of thing.

[27:09] Matt Paré: Mm. I would say, you know, I've always had a pretty good work ethic. Right. and I I try to work very efficiently. and don't waste any time whatsoever. You know, we're just boom, boom, boom, doing what we gotta do. as far as like maybe putting systems in place to improve efficiencies and things like that, you know, maybe retaining expert witnesses slightly earlier in the process is something that, you know, we've learned along the way, the importance of that. is as one example.

[27:41] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah. Yeah. And where do you see your practice going? Do you want to ever expand into a firm, have more people working underneath you or with you?

[27:54] Matt Paré: Well, I you know, I like the way it is now, to be honest with you. I like the freedom that I have, I like the autonomy, I like the flexibility, you know, we're able to achieve amazing results on behalf of our clients and we have, you know, relatively low overhead and and don't have you know a lot of you know staff or anything like that. So you know, personally in terms of, you know, my foreseeable future, I I like the setup the way it is. And You know, we getting back to the whole traveling thing too as well. You know, I like that flexibility of being able to go out there, have some adventures with the family and so it's a it's a good setup.

[28:32] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah, it's a d I feel like it's for you right now, it's a nice little spot, right? You get to have control. There's not as much stress that you're dealing with a lot of admin stuff or anyone else. You get to control your own schedule, do what you need to do, live your life and be able to travel like you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. It's is there something personally that you've you think you want to do the next couple years that you haven't done yet?

[28:49] Matt Paré: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[29:01] Jet Bunditwong: Is there anything any goals that you have? Hm.

[29:04] Matt Paré: Well, every year I I always write a a lengthy list of goals and I actually put on the refrigerator and we have goals in different, you know, facets of life, you know, whether it's, you know, personal, relationship wise, whether it's financial goals, different you know, health related goals, even spiritual goals. Yeah, there's different I'm a definitely a goal oriented person. I will say for the goals that we had for twenty twenty five, we're very much on track and that's awesome. usually around the turn of the year is when I'll come up with specific goals for the next year. So, you know, we'll I'll stay tuned, but well I'll I'll let you know what that is. But yeah I I don't have that quite ready yet, but

[29:44] Jet Bunditwong: question for you. So the way that you describe a lot of your structures and being able to accomplish things, if you weren't a lawyer, what do you think you would have been outside of league legal practicing?

[29:57] Matt Paré: Hm, I don't know. before I I got into this I actually worked as a political operative. I like that too. so it's quite different, but you know, I still have an interest in that. So so maybe that, you know, maybe that's a line of work that I could have been in. But who knows? Who knows? That's a different

[30:11] Jet Bunditwong: It's interesting the way I the the more I talk to you and and learn about how you structured your life and your business, that there's it's it's rare. I think it's rare to find someone that that these are goals and I'm gonna chip away and make it all happen because I think things happen, but it sounds like you've had that going on in your brain for a long time. Like you're like, I'm gonna do these things, I get it done, and I'm gonna move to the next thing. Next thing, right? That is probably one of the reasons why you're successful in in what you do, right? Because it's not it doesn't sound like it's just a a legal thing. It sounds like you could have done other things and still had the same success because of the the way you're you structure things. Right? Do you feel that way?

[30:55] Matt Paré: Yeah, I think so. so it's important to have something that you're aiming towards, whatever that may be. you know, some sort of specified target so that you can incrementally work towards it and have that sort of a goal. yeah, and regardless of what realm it might be in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I totally agree.

[31:10] Jet Bunditwong: Has has Matt ever not achieved a goal in life?

[31:14] Matt Paré: Of course. Of course. Yeah. It I mean if you achieve e like every single one of your goals, maybe you haven't set your goals quite high enough, you know?

[31:21] Jet Bunditwong: I was saying I I feel like for you, I feel like there's there's probably s ones that are really far far of a reach that you're like, I I'm gonna try to get to these and then the ones that are closer to it is what's something that's that maybe you've had since you were younger, like this is the farest goal I've ever I'm gonna put out there and see if I one day can get to it. Is there something like that for you?

[31:43] Matt Paré: Yeah, I mean probably the closest thing I could think of was like like a few years ago it was a goal to make a million dollars in a year. At the time it was kind of like a stretch goal and then and then it happens, you know. And so it's like you know, and I guess that's a good example too of when I initially set that particular goal. It was you know, it didn't meet the goal in the particular year that that goal was set, but just took you know, a little bit of extra time. Yeah. And so was the goal not met? Well It wasn't met on the original time expectation, but eventually it was, you know. So

[32:17] Jet Bunditwong: Now, it's curious for you from your side as as you pick up more and more clients or you've had clients, are there clients that you're just like, this is not gonna be a good fit? Like it and I'm not saying that professionally, I mean that as personality-wise. You're like, this is not good, or is it like you've built enough of a thick skin through the times of of the almost you know, twenty some twenty years or so of of you going through different clients, you're like, This is business, this is what I need to do. For someone that's just getting into it, is is that advice and you give them like, hey, you this is business, right?

[32:57] Matt Paré: All right, I l I like the question. so as a personal injury attorney, the clients that I work with, it it's almost like a business partnership, okay, because we have to work together. It's oftentimes a very lengthy process, sometimes it goes on for years, and I need their cooperation and communication throughout the process, right? And so from the get go, if it seems like there's going to be an issue there, you know, just by speaking with someone or kind of the that's the vibe that you get. One of the things that I'll sometimes do is give them a little bit of a test to evaluate, you know, how reliable they're gonna be. So for example, might ask them, so okay, if you can send me the traffic collision report. Okay? Simple enough request. But if a prospective client, you know, doesn't follow through with a a simple task like that, it's kind of a red flag that, well, maybe this is gonna be a difficult person to work with throughout the process, right? Now I I would only sort of test someone in that way if I have reason to believe that they might be a little bit of an issue. but that's a just a little technique that I would, you know, suggest. Maybe you can give them a little task and see if the, you know, see if they follow through, see if they are able to be dependable, see if they can, you know, work with you. the other thing I would say is that to be on the lookout for is it's kind of a red flag. Is if someone sees every Professional as you know, problematic. Like so if a if a prospective client comes to you with a story where they believe that, you know, six different doctors were negligent and their former attorney was no good and everyone that they've dealt with, you know, allegedly was a problem, well, you know, may maybe they were the problem, right? So you need to kind of look at that and be like, okay, maybe this is not a good path to go down if if they have that sort of a perspective, right?

[34:55] Jet Bunditwong: How long how long did you do you remember, how long did it take you to f figure out that you needed to look for these red flags in your career?

[35:05] Matt Paré: I don't know. I can't say the number of years, you know, live and learn. Yeah, yeah. you know, you build wisdom with time. but you just kinda, you know, some clients are are more challenging than others. and and and some you wanna, you know, if you're trying to run a personal injury law practice as a sole practitioner, you need to be working with clients that you can effectively partner with, right? and they have to be dependable in in in several different ways. Dependable in terms of communication with you. dependable as far as following through on the recommended medical care and all of that.

[35:38] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah, yeah. And do you think it gets easier as time goes on to to spot all of this and you're just like, Hey, this took me like a day to figure out this is a good client?

[35:50] Matt Paré: No, it gets easier with time. It gets easier with with practice. Yeah, like many things, right? so yeah, for sure. You can you can you can spot some of those issues, no doubt about it.

[35:59] Jet Bunditwong: No. What what is curious, I don't know if you can talk about this, but what has been probably a case that's shocked you where you were just like, I this is taking me out of my comfort zone to really for whatever instance it was or whatever injury was that happened?

[36:16] Matt Paré: Like shocking in terms of the like the valuation or shocking in terms of

[36:22] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah, everything. If there's something that just was like something about the case is just was so that you were like I w wasn't really prepared for this so this is a challenge for me to to step up and I'm gonna have to do something a little bit different than than what I'm normal normally used to.

[36:37] Matt Paré: Yeah. I it's not n not necessarily a specific example, but let me just say that one of the things that I have seen is somewhat you know, exaggerations of truth or or sometimes that there there is some unfortunately some you know, less than honest representations that are made. So that's something you have to be on the lookout for, right? so just in general, just to, you know, kind of have your guard up a little bit, take things with a grain of salt. And you know, but I will say in in the personal injury realm, it is rather objective, okay? And so what I mean by that is when the cases are evaluated, it's not so much someone saying that they're in pain, right? The question is, really, what do the medical records show, right? So someone for example, say someone has neck pain, right? It's one thing to say that you have neck pain. And there's probably not much value in that by itself, right? But if someone has an x ray done and the x ray shows that there's a fracture, well now that's something objective that we can point to and say, well, no, in fact this is, you know, very compensable and this is very significant, right? Now if something doesn't show up on an x ray, you can do an MRI and then, you know, maybe there's a pinched nerve, maybe there's a you know, herniated disc or something like that. Again, that is something objective. that you can point to. And that's where the real value in a personal injury case comes from. and I the reason I bring this up too is I think that sometimes there's a misconception, right, that personal injury plaintiffs, people that make personal injury claims, are either you know, fabricating it or exaggerating it, or they're getting a windfall of money, which that sort of thing. The reality is that the way that the process works is it's primarily based upon objective measures of what do the medical records show, what's the course of treatment that was required, how invasive was the treatment, what's the cost of the medical treatment? And then finally, you know, was of course the medical treatment necessary and reasonable, right? And so even though there can be some issues that come up with people, you know, maybe making some exaggerations and what have you, at the end of the day when the insurance adjusters and the attorneys are trying to put a dollar value on these claims,

[39:01] Matt Paré: The most important evidence is the objective medical records.

[39:05] Jet Bunditwong: Have you have you ever dealt with a a client that just fabricated everything?

[39:07] Matt Paré: need it. Yeah, yeah. 100%.

[39:14] Matt Paré: yeah, not in a personal injury case, different type of case, but yeah, and then had to withdraw from representation. Yeah, yeah. So more often than not, it's not like a fabrication, it's more often like a little bit of exaggeration, you might say. But but again, the exaggeration doesn't really carry much weight because you're just looking at you know, okay, if your back hurts, well what is the x ray show? You know what I mean? but the other interesting thing that this can come up too is in the context of like Subrosa surveillance, which is like a private investigator, oftentimes the insurance companies will hire investigators to monitor what the personal injury plaintiffs are doing. And so, you know, you have some funny examples of that where if someone says that they can't exercise, but there's a film of them at the gym, you know, and that that's a problem. Jump roping. Yeah, that that that's that's a huge issue. Or, you know, I I I can't hike anymore and then there's a video of them on a hike. You know, things like that. So, It doesn't usually come up, but it it it's something to be aware of. Not only though in the context of sub rosa surveillance, but also nowadays with social media. Right? It's a big topic for personal injury cases, is that people should be, you know, cognizant of of what they're putting out there on social media and make sure that they're not shooting themselves in the foot or being inconsistent with what they're alleging. Right. You know.

[40:39] Jet Bunditwong: even think of that. Like there's just back in the day, you probably that was something that you didn't even have to worry about from all standpoints. Now it's like, this person can't walk, but they're there's a video of them on Saturday night going out to a party jumping around. I mean d I'm assuming you you should be warning. Yeah. I don't can can you do that? Can you just be like guys stay off of social media

[40:56] Matt Paré: Exactly. So

[41:05] Matt Paré: Yeah, no, it's standard it's standard practice. so in the personal injury practice of law, you know, people should be advising their clients of the potential consequences of that, right? Ultimately it's up to them if they want to use social media, but they need to at least just be informed of the you know the pitfalls and the the dangers of that.

[41:24] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah. Ha has just out of curiosity, has social media helped you in professionally in any way since it's become popular?

[41:36] Matt Paré: not me specifically in the professional capacity. No. Ma maybe for some it has. but no, maybe it has its other uses, but no, it hasn't helped me professionally. Yeah.

[41:45] Jet Bunditwong: Be interesting to talk to you and f years from now, AI and everything starts to change and you're like, Okay, this is where we're at now, you know.

[41:52] Matt Paré: Yeah. Well the AI has definitely helped, but the social media, not so much, you know.

[41:57] Jet Bunditwong: And and wrapping up here, if you can go back to your two thousand and eight self and and give advice, career advice and personal advice, what would those two things be?

[42:12] Matt Paré: question. Okay. so career advice, y you know, I feel like I I didn't necessarily do anything that was you know I wish I would have done differently. Well same on the personal side too, right? So I I wouldn't like to go back in time and say, hey, don't make this huge mistake, right? I I don't feel that

[42:31] Jet Bunditwong: Or something that would it enhance you better. Maybe you're like, Man, I wish I would've known back then.

[42:35] Matt Paré: Yeah. you know, perhaps taking take even taking more risks, you know. that would be a good piece of advice that, you know, to to to go for it, you know, even when you're a little bit outside your comfort zone, maybe just to to give it a shot, right?

[42:54] Jet Bunditwong: For most part of your career you've played it more on the safe side, conservative side.

[43:01] Matt Paré: well, yes and no. I mean, to go from working at a stable law firm to venturing out as an entrepreneur on your own practice is a big risk unto itself, right? So that's a big risk. in terms of like taking cases to trial, you know, I certainly have trial experience in state court and federal court, but the goal, in my opinion, is to settle the case for the most amount possible, right? Because trials are tend to be really not only risky and unpredictable, but also very costly, right? And so, an analogy that I'd like to give is that, you know, in my opinion, settling a case is like resolving something through diplomacy as opposed to, you know, taking a case which, you know, by analogy would be like taking it to like going to war, right? And so I think there's huge advantage to diplomacy to try to negotiate a resolution. Now, does that mean there's going to be some compromise? Of course, that's the nature of the process. But it is more you know, predictable and you have more control if it's something that you can agree to. it's not always possible, but where it is, that that should be the goal, in my in my view. Yeah. So

[44:12] Jet Bunditwong: And what about just give a younger Matt just hey, these are there's something I learned in the next twenty so years that you should probably, you know.

[44:22] Matt Paré: I don't know, invest in AI, maybe? You know, there you go.

[44:25] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah. That's a great way to end this. All right, Matt. Well, where can people find you?

[44:30] Matt Paré: you can find my website mattpare dot com. That's A T T P A R E dot com. And yeah, thanks again for Jet for the opportunity.

[44:38] Jet Bunditwong: Yeah, thank you, Matt. Thank you. This is The Personal Side of Business.