Ian Kleinman and The Inventing Room: Turning Sugar Science Into a Business

00:00:16:24 - 00:00:37:13 Unknown Hi, and welcome to the personal side of business where every business has a story. I'm your host, Jeff Fun. And. Well, today. My guest is blending science, entertainment and desserts all in one unique setting here in the inventing room in Denver, Colorado. We're going to learn how he's building business. That's educational and also tasteful. Welcome to the podcast in climate. 00:00:37:17 - 00:00:59:20 Unknown Thank you. Yeah. So tell us, how do we hear. Well, the inventing room started when I was a kid, watching Willy Wonka all the time. I had this feeling of wanting to work in the factory when I got older. My dad and grandfather were both chefs, so I was kind of born into the industry, working in restaurants since I was a kid. 00:00:59:22 - 00:01:32:14 Unknown And, I went through culinary school, worked for some nice hotel brands and stuff like that. And then got let go and, wanted to take a chance on, the inventing room. So, Yeah, it's a, kind of metamorphosis in company all of the time. You know, we like to have a little bit going everywhere, so we make sure that, you know, not only are we running a fun business, but it's also, a profitable business, which is very important. 00:01:32:15 - 00:02:05:07 Unknown So, but, yeah, it's, the the trip has been incredible. And, we're very lucky to do what we love every day. Okay, so let's let's start back. You were telling me it was starting right around Covid. This was basically more scientific base and for fun. And then it transformed this business, right? Yeah. When you started all of that, did you see that in the future at all, that you were going to have something along the lines of an actual storefront for people to come in? 00:02:05:10 - 00:02:29:12 Unknown I didn't I mean, it was a television appearance that we did on a, show called Restaurant Start Startup, where we were able to build the restaurant in 48 hours and then have customers come in and experience it. And as they came in and told me how great it was, we then, you know, came up with the guts to to do our brick and mortar store and, to have an actual business. 00:02:29:12 - 00:02:48:14 Unknown But Covid was definitely the catalyst for, how we run the shop now. Before were, it was a walk in shop, you'd walk in, we'd give you some liquid nitrogen popcorn. As you're, taking a look at the menu, you would order, and then our chef would make the dishes to order right in front of you. 00:02:48:17 - 00:03:10:11 Unknown And then when Covid hit, we could only have a few amount of people in the shop, and, I do science demonstrations for my kids and kind of combine the two. And now, it's a, sugar science program where we concentrate on, the science of certain subjects and implement different kinds of food in there as well. 00:03:10:14 - 00:03:39:15 Unknown So, and I don't know if people know this very like, so you're one of the few that I was able to research online. Feel, molecular gastronomy is on there. How did you get into that field? I was, working at a hotel, and, just became very stagnant. I started when I was eight years old in the business, doing dishes and working my way up, and, really needed a spark. 00:03:39:18 - 00:04:00:12 Unknown Something that I could, hold on to and and do something fun with. So, I hate the term molecular gastronomy. You don't want to sit down and have. If I had all introduced me. Right. But essentially, it's using science to help us cook. So, before I would ask questions, you know, why does sugar do this? 00:04:00:12 - 00:04:20:16 Unknown Why does, this react a certain way? And I never had the answers. But now that we have these different scientific principles, we can actually come up with the answers as a chef. And that's what's exciting to me. You know, when I first started cooking, there was 12 things I could do. Grill. Freeze. Now there's 120 things I can do. 00:04:20:21 - 00:04:52:07 Unknown And it's all about that bag of tricks for chef. Being able to reach in there and, you know, come out with something new and fun. Were you dismissed when you would ask those questions? Well they were like, just go ahead and do whatever you need to do, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I've always work in real high volume restaurants where, you know, the owners were more focused on, the bottom line than, you know, development, which now that I'm an owner, I can appreciate that, but you never really, get new things. 00:04:52:07 - 00:05:12:22 Unknown Experience new things. Unless you try them out. Unless you have, you know, something you can work for. How often are you experimenting to go to the next level? Whatever it is in the shop? Every day. Yeah, yeah. I keep a notebook that I have with me. I've done that since I was, like, 12 years old. 00:05:12:25 - 00:05:37:26 Unknown That just kind of highlights, some things in my head, that I want to try, and there's about a 30% success rate with it. It's definitely not 100%. Sometimes it involves trips to the emergency room, but, yeah, we, we always get from A to B now, which is, you know, something really fun. 00:05:38:01 - 00:06:03:16 Unknown Yeah. What what is what is it? Ongoing goal. I think that the in-between line of what you're trying to do to go outside the box and the experiments, but then also run a business because I'm sure it kind of has to be somewhere in the middle, right? You you can't go too far outside and go, well, if I keep doing this, I'm forgetting that I have to run a business and get people in every day. 00:06:03:17 - 00:06:25:29 Unknown You have to sell tickets, you know, things like that. Where what is what is going on in your mind as you're running this consistently? It's failure. It's the threat of not not making it. I did an event the first year of our business, up in the mountains. And, I went up there and they said, you know, you're going to do a couple hundred people a day, and this is going to be a huge event. 00:06:26:00 - 00:06:44:14 Unknown So, we invested all of the money in our bank account to get liquid nitrogen and product. We had to rent a refrigeration truck, to drive from here all the way up to Aspen. And we did the event, and we did, like, a couple hundred dollars in sales. They placed us in a spot that was away from all the food. 00:06:44:16 - 00:07:07:06 Unknown So little details like that, just that little placement. Absolutely ruined it for us. They thought maybe just the sheer novelty of it was just going to get people there. But you really need to get people to see you. Yeah, yeah. And, that's a great lesson, too. Is, location, location, location. That's, something I learned in culinary school. 00:07:07:08 - 00:07:33:05 Unknown But if you have, product that people walls will seek out that will go and find, it's not that important anymore. But walk in business. It's really good to be around different entities and stuff like that. But yeah, when I was, at the end of the event, I was at the dump up in Aspen throwing all of my ice cream out into the dump, and just this sinking feeling of, is this going to work? 00:07:33:05 - 00:08:00:22 Unknown So, number one, I got out of that as guarantee. So we only do event events that are guaranteed, which means we get paid no matter how many people come up and stuff like that. So just little lessons, little hard lessons that, I'm sure if I went to business school, maybe would have picked that up, but you know, going on the fly and and doing and the excitement, I mean, like at the beginning, especially if you're in business, it's a novelty type of business. 00:08:00:22 - 00:08:25:00 Unknown You you're trying to get out there like just asking and get eyes on you alone. But then now the business side of it comes in. And for you, I'm guessing it's not just like quote unquote food costs, right? You're you were talking about nitrogen, like liquid nitrogen. To be able to get the things that you need that are probably shifting and costs that are different than in the average restaurant, right. 00:08:25:01 - 00:08:52:00 Unknown So, from a business standpoint, what have you learned in terms of numbers, like in margins that maybe you weren't looking at when you were working in the kitchen? Right. Well, we kind of have a really good business to be able to have forecasts and to understand our costs on a daily basis, because I'm the only one that shops, I do all of the prep pretty much by myself. 00:08:52:02 - 00:09:15:21 Unknown So I can understand those fluctuations where other restaurants, it might have a bigger impacts. But we're also not using lobster or New York strips. What really killed us was eggs. You know, this last year when they went up. So, just kind of understanding cost from there. Just like my events. I have a guarantee here at the shop. 00:09:15:23 - 00:09:39:18 Unknown We sell 16 tickets per hour. So, again, I know exactly how many people are going to come into my shop, so I know how much to prep. Nothing gets thrown away. It's a very, very efficient business. We're dealing with candy, which has a longer shelf life and other stuff. So, you know, all those aspects that I learned, cooking in the first part of my career. 00:09:39:18 - 00:10:02:10 Unknown I'm now applying to, keep the business costs low and and make sure that it's a valuable restaurant, to the community is a huge thing for me. And this business is now for the kids. Yeah. When I was in fine dining, I was like, I got to impress the adults. So now it's. I got to impress the kids. 00:10:02:11 - 00:10:21:11 Unknown Have you had to up your showmanship in the. Yeah. You know, we we let people taste and you hand them something, and it's not like the kitchen where you're behind a door and you don't see the reaction. I get to see the kids reaction right away, and they have no muffler. So they're just like, this sucks. Or this is great. 00:10:21:11 - 00:10:44:09 Unknown And yeah, it really should be on top of your game. Probably a lot more than, you know, being in the back of the house. Yeah. You know, I was curious as to doing research on the eventing room in terms of risk. How have you manage that? If something goes wrong, something could go. It could really change. Like the, you know, the inside of a building. 00:10:44:12 - 00:17:17:11 Unknown How do you do you experiment, do all the experiments outside of here first and then coming here to make sure it's safe here? How does that all work for, you know, safety? You know, we, work with, like, our local fire departments. I actually, work with hotels. They'll bring me in, and I'll teach the chefs how to use nitrogen. 00:17:17:13 - 00:17:36:27 Unknown So I would say that this is the safest shop in the country for nitrogen use. But a lot of experimentation is done here. We also have a catering kitchen where we do all of our prep for all of our events. We do a couple hundred events every year. And so that really, you know, helps us out as far as the bottom line as well. 00:17:36:27 - 00:17:57:20 Unknown But, yeah, I mean, safety is like it's huge. When I first started, I had a Honda Civic and, I had a doer sitting on the, drivers driver's side, went to bed and woke up to the fire department and hazmat, somebody rear ended my car. The nitrogen spilled out and blew out the windows because of the pressure. 00:17:57:27 - 00:18:31:13 Unknown So yeah, that that's the first list that I've, that I had in my name. I've actually, when when you're dealing with now public that's really interactive with you. What what did you feel like was something you learned quickly that you felt like I need to do this in order to make this all work here? Well, first, our hardest customers are kids, and young people, because everybody wants to put their hands in the air. 00:18:31:16 - 00:18:55:04 Unknown Something hydrogen was standard comedian like, you know, like, I feel like you have. You have to be able to take it as you're performing, right? You're doing it. Yeah. And more than any other restaurant setting I've ever been in. Yeah. You're an entertainer here. You know, people have this crazy expectation when they come to the inventing room, and that expectation just grows. 00:18:55:04 - 00:19:21:15 Unknown Every video they see, every review that they read. So you really have to come through and made sure that, you know, that expectation is, is being met, which is extremely hard to do. Yeah. What have you done? And do you think that has up your showmanship as, as time has gone on? Is there anything you like I need to improve this to really make this more fun for someone on the other side of the glass? 00:19:21:17 - 00:19:39:09 Unknown Yeah. And we do the demonstration with nitrogen. So we show them, you know, how it boils and sublimates and stuff like that. So I usually pour it on the floor so you can see it kind of all day magic show. So, so yeah, it's, so like a year ago, I was like, well, let me add some lights to this. 00:19:39:11 - 00:19:59:17 Unknown So now we've, we have lights that kind of light it all up and, you know, just bring that little bit of wow factor to it. So, but every year, when we're slow, which is generally in February, March, I pick a project that will enhance us and it'll be a cool something that we can talk about. 00:19:59:20 - 00:20:16:08 Unknown For example, we 3D printed systems for our drones. So now we can drop candy packages on people. So that was huge with Covid, the kids would walk out on the front lawn and I'd go up a couple hundred feet and drop cotton candy and a bunch of different stuff for them. So that's pretty cool. 00:20:16:10 - 00:20:30:04 Unknown But that was one year, you know, I was bored and I was like, I'm going to take a little bit of money and invest it in, you know, a little bit about other cool projects. You you're since you're the owner now, you're doing all this stuff. This isn't your car, Blanche. So just be able to do like you're I. 00:20:30:05 - 00:20:52:26 Unknown If I want to do this, I can do this out. Right. Just whatever. Now, from a business side business standpoint, what is it you feel like has, improved for the moment? You open till now something or something you've learned that was like, hey, I need to really make this, like, a staple of my business in order for me to function. 00:20:52:28 - 00:21:14:11 Unknown Yeah, I would say, just the science aspect of it, how we're always talking about, the science behind what we do. That's what, people remember. And again, coming back to the kids, when I have them come back into the store, they went to a demo a couple of years ago, and they tell me that they're actually interested in science. 00:21:14:11 - 00:21:41:18 Unknown Now, that's the hugest compliment that you can ever receive is, you know, kids paying attention to your kids actually getting a point and, you know, having fun in our establishment. But, just trying to be on my game every single day, you know, whether it be at events or, you know, working the job or just, bringing it because it's it's different for you, right? 00:21:41:18 - 00:22:14:11 Unknown As from a business standpoint, your science has to always work for the audience, because if you're off that day, they're like, oh, now the business, it's makes a business a week, etc. like you're like, maybe he doesn't know what he's doing. They've made this is all like a, a farce, right? But for you, as different from like a, as someone who is just who is really just doing a regular restaurant per se to have that, they're like, well, if the food doesn't work out that day, the food doesn't work, that they break you like it has to work out. 00:22:14:11 - 00:22:30:18 Unknown Yeah. In order for it for them to go out and tell the next group of people like, hey, that was awesome. I to come back in here, you got to see this, you know? So, you had a some different standpoint and then, you know, you were talking earlier, but a little bit about learning, you know, numbers and and being on top of that. 00:22:30:25 - 00:22:53:01 Unknown What was what was your, I guess, education in making sure that you understood the margin and stuff like that? Or did you know that from working at the restaurant already? I knew a little bit from the restaurants I work in, operations where I'd have to cost out dishes and, you know, come to the owners and explain why this would be a good, fit for us. 00:22:53:03 - 00:23:13:01 Unknown But, yeah, running your own place. It's just me and my wife. And if we want to change something the next day, we change it. It doesn't go through meetings or the corporate ladder. And that's what makes this place so great is, you know, we can do stuff on the fly, which normally you don't see, like in a in a large corporation and stuff like that. 00:23:13:04 - 00:23:33:26 Unknown The wheels move a little slower. But, you know, for me it's, you know, if it doesn't work, you know, we need to figure something out and let's just change it and do it. The right way. Yeah. And, you know, wrapping up here, we were to go back in time to your Covid error self and be like, hey, this is what's about to happen. 00:23:33:28 - 00:24:03:26 Unknown But if you can give advice to yourself at that point to maybe expedite this journey and give give advice that something could be easier for you, what do you think it would be? I would tell my my Covid self that, you know, everything's going to be okay. You know, there was a lot of panic. There was a lot of, you know, pivoting and trying to understand, you know, how do we run a business in this climate? 00:24:03:28 - 00:24:44:05 Unknown But if you believe in your concepts, if every day when you open that door, you're smiling. And every day when you lock up that door, you still have that smile on your face? It it truly does not become work anymore. And I feel like, the inspiration, especially that we hopefully give to kids is that, you might have an idea as you're a kid and people kind of dismiss you, but keep that idea in the back of your head because you might have a chance to, you know, take a chance on yourself one day and try to take that next level. 00:24:44:07 - 00:25:06:06 Unknown And that's what I did. You know, I, I always thought that this is going to be something bigger. And, you know, it it worked out that way. So where, you know, never let anybody tell you you have a bad idea. Only you can take it a little bit further and make sure that it's, an amazing thing that they can turn into your career. 00:25:06:08 - 00:25:34:04 Unknown That's also where. And on that. Thank you so much. Let's tell everyone how they can find that. The invention room location where you are, Instagram, all that stuff. We're at 44, 33 West 29th Street. So they call it slow. Hi. I'm here in Denver. Our website is ter denver.com, and tickets are required to come into our shop so you can get on there and select days. 00:25:34:10 - 00:25:57:17 Unknown We're open Thursday through Sunday. We also have the ability to do private demonstrations, and other stuff like that. Yeah, we're on Instagram just inventing room. We also have a couple shops in Dubai now, so there's, you can check out kind of some of the stuff that they're doing over there as well. So, but yeah, come on, come on down. 00:25:57:17 - 00:26:02:17 Unknown Cameras. Yes. Well, thank you guys. Thank you, Ian, for being on the personal side business.